.45-70 Collar Button questions

I've been looking into this collar button stuff a a bit, and think I may want to work up some loads. A big issue that I see, though, is that the typical Lyman Collar Button looks to be pretty pointy. Are people loading these in a tube magazine, or single shooting them?

If not that boolit, then how about a .490 round ball that was pushed through a .460 sizing die? From what I've been reading, several people do this and report it to be pretty accurate. Would these be able to be loaded into a tube magazine without the boolits being pushed back? I use RCBS Cowboy dies, which do a nice roll crimp. But with a round ball, elongated, there's no crimp groove to roll the case mouth into. So I thought about building some sort of an apparatus to create a small crimp groove...am I over thinking this?

At the end of the day, I'd like to have something of the collar button nature that's safe to run in a tube magazine.

Shameless plug!
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=1806&osCsid= n1ivrf4lrt5n7tpuquc3jnh394

Bullet maker, maker
Swede Nelson

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Originally Posted by SwedeNelson

Shameless plug!
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=1806&osCsid= n1ivrf4lrt5n7tpuquc3jnh394

Bullet maker, maker
Swede Nelson

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Pardon any dense-ness, but is that "shameless plug" safe to stack up in a tube magazine? It does appear to be less pointy than the Lyman flavoring, not to mentioned size more appropriately. :bigsmyl2:

If your intent is to size down a commercial round ball, note that they tend to be made of very soft lead. You could seat such a slug with the straight part in the case and your standard roll crimp die could be adjusted to slightly crimp the case into the soft lead, thus supporting the boolit against motion in both directions.

Or, you could source yerself a Lee collet crimp die:

http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-...ory-crimp-die-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinhorn97062

A big issue that I see, though, is that the typical Lyman Collar Button looks to be pretty pointy. Are people loading these in a tube magazine, or single shooting them?

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I believe the question is "Will the pointy end possibly ignite a primer in a tubular magazine?" if I'm reading it right.

(but I don't have the answer to that)

Check with Accurate about the mould they just made for Bjorn. I believe it to be a very good copy of the Rapine 460250 that I use. Should weigh around 270 gr and is an excellent low end bullet for the 45-70. It is my most shot bullet in my 4four 45-70s. I shoot so many I have two 2 cavity Rapine moulds that I cast with at the same time and load on a Dillon 550B. They have a flat nose and pose no potential problems in tube magazines.

I load it over 8 gr of Bullseye (no filler or wad) for right at 1050 fps and it is amazingly accurate at short range and out to 500 yards. It is also excellent at a more sedate pace with 6 gr of Bullseye.

Larry Gibson

Neuces- I like that idea of just crimping the soft lead a bit harder and will try that out.

Beagle- you're correct. The question of safety is definitely on the table, concerning loading that Lyman style collar button in a tubular magazine.

Larry Gibson- I'll look into that mold you referenced. Thanks for the tip!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinhorn97062

Pardon any dense-ness, but is that "shameless plug" safe to stack up in a tube magazine? It does appear to be less pointy than the Lyman flavoring, not to mentioned size more appropriately. :bigsmyl2:

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Look at the drawing a .125 FLAT metplat is not "pointy"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

Check with Accurate about the mould they just made for Bjorn. I believe it to be a very good copy of the Rapine 460250 that I use. Should weigh around 270 gr and is an excellent low end bullet for the 45-70. It is my most shot bullet in my 4four 45-70s. I shoot so many I have two 2 cavity Rapine moulds that I cast with at the same time and load on a Dillon 550B. They have a flat nose and pose no potential problems in tube magazines.

I load it over 8 gr of Bullseye (no filler or wad) for right at 1050 fps and it is amazingly accurate at short range and out to 500 yards. It is also excellent at a more sedate pace with 6 gr of Bullseye.

Larry Gibson

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dude I gotta try this.
you got any of those 500 yd targets handy? [I'd like to see one]
8 grs of bulls-eye would save me a pile of money in powder.

The target was a steel E silhouette. I was using my H&R LBH M1873 TD Carbine with a M1879 rear sight. Smacking that target was/is no problem. Unlike some this "dude" doesn't claim ridiculous "bughole" groups but that is a very fun load for killing rocks, sticks ant/termite hills and large cow pies out to various ranges. No smoke and no appreciable recoil so you can spot your own hits or misses.

Larry Gibson

I gotta give it a go.
cow piles and rocks we got.

Larry do you know what number Accurate list that mold as?

It's the 46-275R. Larry's BE loads perform exactly as advertised; I lube them with NASA black powder lube (got that and a .460 H&I die permanently set up in a Lyman 4500).

I am trying to search for the answer to a similar question as Tinhorn, the OP, and found this thread.

So, while I know I am resurrecting a dead thread, does anyone have the answer to whether the NOE collar button mold (460-186-CB) will be safe in the tubular magazine.

The NOE has a meplate of .125" and the primer is about .210",. There will not be much recoil, but I am wanting to be a bit on the cautious side.

Maybe, the fact that the bullet sags down, and lays on the bottom of the tube while the primer is centered by the rim, would cause enough misalignment to make it safe????

Worrying minds want to know.

In a rimmed cartridge the boolit nose is not on the primer of the next round. Lay some on a level surface and check. I don't know if the spring pressure changes this or not.