Cast bullets for self defense?

[David LaPell]

I know the hollowpoint is supposedly king for personal defense, but why not cast bullets too? I don't mean the old lead round nose jobs like the .38 Special's 158 grainer that the factory used to load, but how about some decent bullets like the #358156? The #358429? What about the #429421 in hollowpoint or cast in a .44 Special? What about the #452424 in .45 Colt? I would think all of these cast not too hard would be ideal for personal defense and would cost alot less than jacketed hollow points.

[theperfessor]

And you would be correct in your assumption. Except you probably don't really need a HP in the .40+ calibers.

[MT Gianni]

I think a lot of the avoidance comes from Police Depts being sued for over penetration. A 358429 will go through a lot and most of it is out of your control. Too much risk of collateral damage.

[jh45gun]

Wad cutter with flat surface its got to do some damage. I shot at a zombie target with my 38 at 7 yards with some wad cutters that were given to me and some factory HP. The wad dcutter holes were twice as big on the paper and they were perfectly round so I know they were stabilized well. No I did not buy the zombie target LOL it came in a Mid South Flyer. Yea the hollow points cannot expand on the paper but I was surprised to see how small the HP round was on paper compared to the wad cutter.

[waksupi]

BD45 is my friend.

[35remington]

Given that the argument against using roll your own ammo for self defense now appears to entirely rest on the "non reproducible powder burn residue" theorem, which seems pretty tenuous, I'd say have at it with whatever you want to use.

You can always point out that the oft recommended factory loaded 38 Special 158 grain Plus P SWCHP is an all lead bullet, too.

It has been well advanced that since most bullets miss, over penetration fears are often very secondary to the problem of stray bullets. If you're still worried cast HP's can be produced.

In all likelihood very few of us will see a need to roll our own specifically for such use, but there is always the possibility of having to employ what's in the gun when misfortune strikes. That may not be a factory load in some cases.

It would be difficult to advance a cast bullet as superior to what you can buy, but then again sometimes factory hollow points don't penetrate enough.

[rintinglen]

Lead SWC's faired little better than lead RN in Marshall's studies. People ain't paper, and despite the seemingly larger holes a WC or SWC boolit might make in a target, an expanding hollow point will do more dammage in tissue. Now, if the HP bullet fails, due to the cavity getting plugged, mashed shut, or whatever, all bets are off. You are then dealing with a RN Equivalent. That said, my choice for a duty round in a service gun remains a 125 Grain .357 Magnum HP in a 4 inch BBl M-66.

[jh45gun]

I have shot deer with a 308 RN cast bullet and I have shot deer with the same bullet with the nose filed flat for a flat nose bullet. (Same size flat nose as a Lyman 311407 which I used as a guide) There was no comparison on performance the flat nose worked much better. I cannot help but think a wad cutter is gonna do some damage as it should mushroom well with that flat end hitting tissue or clothing before tissue.

[rintinglen]

As I understood the original question, I thought it pertained to standard velocity revolver cartridges. At 800 fps, there is little or no upset from non-hollowpoint bullets. The permanent cavity is little larger than the bullet diameter. Even hollow-point bullets often show limited expansion at that speed. At 1800 fps things change, the hollow point that was o.k. at 800, good at 1200 may disintegrate at the higher speed. The soft flat nose will mushroom at such speeds. Moving a 454-424 at 1800 FPS takes more gun than a .45 Colt. (Or at least, a very long barrel--maybe Earp was onto something with his Buntline).

[jh45gun]

If you got a big hole to start with it helps

[subsonic]

NO gun is a world away from A gun. The rest are just details. But if the gun is something you can shoot with enough accuracy to hit a grapefruit under said conditions and the power level is something north of mouse fart, you are doing really well. You just need to locate the grapefruit and apply the lead before you catch any lead yourself. The rest are just details.....

[shooting on a shoestring]

Cast Boolits for defense? Of course!

My rationale is two fold. First I shoot what I carry, and shoot it often. I very much prefer to practice with the same ammo that I carry. That amount of shooting calls for cast boolits. Secondly, I use soft wadcutters in two forms. For .38 spl, cast in 98% Pb/2%Sn, kept within standard .38 pressures (b/c they do get shot alot). For .357, the same boolit gets hollow pointed, pushed to the top end. My Security Six is so loaded and gets 150 grain HP'd soft boolits over 1400 fps. Impressively shreds milk jugs.

[218bee]

Just my opinion but I would say lead bullets even at low velocity would do the job against some ******* invading your domicile. Hell, a 22 would work in most cases I believe.
I could be wrong, but I feel most criminals would likely give up with even a small hole in them.
Now if I was in a war or chasing down known criminals who had bad intent and they were likely coked up and fighting for freedom or life in prison I would choose something with more power and terminal effect. But hopefully as an average citizen if I ever had to use a firearm for self defense it would most likely be against some stupid clown that would be easily discouraged with one or two small holes in him. Just my take for what its worth.

[tek4260]

Where does mouse fart begin? 9mm/40 and below?

[45/70fan]

Where does mouse fart begin? 9mm/40 and below?

Under the tail I would think.

[pdawg_shooter]

I rely on handloaded 45ACP myself, but my wife has a 2" 38Spl. I keep loaded with 148 HBWC loaded backwards over 5gr of Unique. If it does as well on a gomer as it does on a coyote then she has nothing to fear.

[subsonic]

Where does mouse fart begin? 9mm/40 and below?

I would say ~125gr moving @900fps is the basement floor. Snubby territory. Heard a story once about a pet rabbit that required 3 Golden Sabers from a Kel-Tec P3AT to be put down. I traded mine that week. But again, still worlds better than a sharp stick for all but maybe Chuck Norris.

[subsonic]

But then again, my carry gun is a G20 stoked with 175STHPs and I carry a spare mag for a total of 33rds. Or my j-frame with 2 extra speed strips (and maybe a speed loader) of +Ps if I can't have my first choice.

[subsonic]

Where does mouse fart begin? 9mm/40 and below?

Under the tail I would think.

An asstoot observation.

[subsonic]

To sum up my thoughts on the matter:
A cast boolit that lands anywhere on the bad guy is going to be a lot better than a hollow point that lands on something that is not the bad guy.