deer hunting with a 45 colt

[jhammer]

Let me start off by saying that I have never hunted deer with a revolver before, and I have no idea what I might need to make a clean kill as far as velocity. That being said I purchased a Ruger Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel about six month ago, and have fired 100 rounds from it every week since it came home. Three bullet molds and several powders later I now have a load that is scary accurate. It consists of a rcbs 45-255-swc (266 grains from my alloy) loaded over 6 grains of green dot. I know that groups shrink on the internet, but I put three of these through the same hole at 25 yards, right before I got excited and turned it into 4" group with the next three. This load consistently shoots very small groups right to point of aim.

Needless to say the accuracy that I am getting is very confidence inspiring, and I would like to use this for my hunting load. My concern is that this load is not exactly in the high velocity range, I am without a chronograph so do not know the velocity that I am actually getting. My question is, is this load enough for deer, or should I try to put together something with a little more velocity? All shots taken would be within 50 yards. Thanks
Jake

[starmac]

I'm curious to se the answers you will get. I load the 300 grain lee with 8 grains of unique for a rifle, but never considered it a hunting load, it is way fun to play with though.

[DougGuy]

What velocity does your load data list for that boolit and that powder charge? What pressure does it list?

In it's most anemic loading the .45 Colt will take deer easily, they are thin skinned and easy to kill. The better hunting loads for this caliber are not hard as a rock but somewhat soft, 50/50 ww to pure lead, with 2% tin added. Tin helps the pour fill out in the mold but it also helps the boolit to be tough and stay together when it hits bone. If you can scratch it with a thumbnail and it shoots accurately, it's already a good hunting boolit.

In a Blackhawk you could load it all the way to .44 Magnum levels and slightly beyond but this really isn't necessary. 1,000 fps will take deer but I prefer 1150 to 1180 or so at the muzzle, I like the boolit to be just above supersonic so the boolit hits before the sound does, so I go for a minimum of 1120fps at the target.

With the rifling twist in your Ruger, 50/50+2% alloy, 1150ish fps would make a great combo. Should be accurate and no leading (with soft lube).

I personally prefer the RF style boolit with a large meplat and smooth sides with long bearing surfaces, and my guns shoot the 300gr boolits very good so I stick with it. No need for a hollowpoint, no need for hardcast alloy, you would want penetration first and foremost, expansion is secondary but not needed. Time you two hole one with a wide flat nosed slug, they won't go far.

These are my favorite deer and bear loads for .45 Colt, Lee C452-300-RF boolit (320gr checked and lubed) over 20.5gr LilGun or 17.0gr H2400. These are 50/50+2% that is bhn 10-12, can scratch them with a thumbnail but not dig the thumbnail in. They run out of a short barreled Vaquero right at 1100f/s. I use the same boolit for hog only in a harder alloy Lyman #2 over 22.5gr H110.



This 255gr RF boolit is from the Lee C452-255-RF mold, another favorite on this forum with many shooters:



That said, the boolit you have cast will work fine, however Green Dot has too fast a burn rate for heavy boolits, and is not suitable for getting into the "magnum" loads with this caliber. You would be much better off with a slower burning powder that will push your boolits into the 1000+ fps range. Data I have seen for 6gr Green Dot behind your boolit are in the 775 - 800 fps range, which is quite low for a hunting load in this caliber.

What other powders do you have? Also, have you checked your cylinder throats and tried to push one of your boolits into the front of the cylinder?

[M-Tecs]

You would be much better off with a slower burning powder that will push your boolits into the 1000+ fps range. Data I have seen for 6gr Green Dot behind your boolit are in the 775 - 800 fps range, which is quite low for a hunting load in this caliber.

I fully concur with DougGuy. I have taken a couple of whitetails with 8 grains of Unique with a 250 bullet. Velocity was around 800 fps. It worked but performance was marginal. Took a couple more with a velocity of about 1,200 and performance was outstanding.

Dougs post is excellent advice.

[Huntsman]

First off, good pick with the 45 Colt ctg., one of my faves
My load for rifle (Win 94 Legacy) is 24 grs H110 pushing a gas checked Lee 300gr boolit. This load kicks! Even from a carbine/rifle.
This load can easily be and is safe to shoot from a Ruger frame Blackhawk. I have'nt chrongraphed this load yet but the shove on the shoulder tells me it'll drop what its aimed at.
I also have the Lee 255gr mould but have not played enuf with it yet with Green Dot & Longshot powders on hand. H110 is more suited to heavier boolits.
I wish like hell we could hunt with handguns in Canada. Good luck with your load building.

[geargnasher]

I fully concur with DougGuy, he knows what's up.

At 850-1K fps, the .45 Colt is a sure killer out to 50 yards at least, probably more. The trick is use as soft an alloy as possible. Put it in the boiler room and you can expect quicker kills than with a .30-'06. I just wrote in another thread recently about the only real bang-flop I've had on a behind-the-shoulder shot being from a cap-and-ball .45 revolver and a pure lead ball. I really like slow, soft, 260-ish .45 slugs out of my NEF carbine and most recently out of a Taurus Thunderbolt for freezer-filling of soft-skinned game.

Gear

[DougGuy]

Just for reference, I found this from an older post, this is what can be done with magnum level loads in a Blackhawk. The H110 load data should NOT be downloaded, this powder likes a high % of case density for not only best performance, but safety as well.

If you want to download a heavy .45 Colt load, use LilGun or 2400 to achieve this, as either will put you into the 75% - 90% power band and do it safely.

Let me also point out that these loads are only safe in Blackhawk, Redhawk, Super Redhawk, Vaquero (to 2005), Super Blackhawk, but they are NOT SAFE IN ANY RUGER WITH A 3 DIGIT PREFIX IN THE SERIAL NUMBER! Also, NOT SAFE in any Colt, Colt clones, S&W.

[DougGuy]

My load for rifle (Win 94 Legacy) is 24 grs H110 pushing a gas checked Lee 300gr boolit.

This load is at it's absolute MAX, at a COA of 1.680" if you have it seated short in the upper crimp groove to get it to feed in a levergun, you may want to back off your charge a little bit. It's probably good in the rifle but (IF it is at 1.650") it may be too hot for a Ruger.

[TCLouis]

As a comparison 6.1 grains of Red Dot and the Lee 255 grain SWC chronographs at 780 with a 6" barrel.

They are out of a coworkers gun and he says they ar the most accurate loads he has ever shot out of a pistol.

He did shoot some at 100 yards and was shocked that he could hit a small gong type target at that range.

[jhammer]

I cast my bullets from coww and add 2% tin, and they can be scratched with a thumb nail. My cylinder throats are reamed to .4525 (measured with mic and small hole gauge after reaming) and my bullets measure .4524 after sizing. The lube I am currently using is bee's wax softened with Vaseline to a point stiffer than grease, but softer than a crayon.

I have the lee 255 rnfp mould but mine casts less than .4524 on one axis, and I end up with a bullet that is out of round. I shot that bullet extensively, but never got the accuracy results that I have from the rcbs swc.

I have, and have loaded aa5, trail boss, green dot, unique, and 800x. Each of these powders was loaded in .5 grain steps from minimum to maximum charge listed in the lyman cast bullet manual. I have just never gotten such consistent/accurate results as I have from the green dot load.

I do have some h110, but haven't tried it in the 45 colt yet.

[DougGuy]

Everything you listed off there is great! You have a really good start on this with the throats already done and a good alloy working for you. Only thing I am not seeing yet is some slower burning powder. Everything listed there is kinda quick.

Some people beagle a mold to get it to drop larger, some make a lapping boolit and use it to make the mold larger, some Lee molds drop larger and some don't. Lee may even exchange it for you if you describe what it's doing. I hear they are pretty good about it.

There is also a NOE mold of this same 255gr RF boolit, improved with a single larger lube groove and a better crimp groove and they drop .454"

I'd try to find some AA#9, 2400, LilGun, something to get in the 1150f/s range and see how well I could get it to shoot. Other than that, you are pretty much there.

I know there have been lots of deer taken with less power in this same caliber, but the best performance in flesh from a revolver will be had with the heavier boolits in the 1150 - 1200f/s range.

If I had to hunt next week with what you have there, and just minimal time to build a load and sight it in, I think I would load some at 9.5gr Unique and see how they do. This will get you over 1000f/s and still be manageable and safe in your Blackhawk. 10.0gr of Unique in this caliber is right on the edge of scary because it can be spiky and unpredictable. I would NOT recommend going higher than 9.5gr with your 268gr boolit.

[5.7 MAN]

I am using the RCBS 255KT bullet this year, mine are dropping closer to 270 Grains. Powder is 13.3 grains HS6 in a Ruger 4 5/8 Flattop. Love that Gun! I have not chronographed this load but 12.5 Grains of HS6 was just north of 1050FPS.

[micky_blue]

Does PA have a minimum barrel length law? We do in Ohio is why I ask. Your pistol wouldn't be legal here if memory serves. Ohio requires a 5 or 5.5 inch barrel minimum, but I am going off memory here.

[GoodOlBoy]

Yep, as has been said, you shouldn't have an issue whatsoever. I shot a nice little buck a few years back with a 5.5" Barrel Blackhawk using a 250gr RNFP lasercast (which honestly is WAY too hard for moderate loads) using 8 grains of Unique and it was a through and through shot that dropped the little bugger like a rock. I mean if you think about it you are talking about what essentially people call "cowboy loads" which are meant to replicate what a black powder 45 colt load did back in the day. That load killed plenty of critters of both the two and four legged variety.

GoodOlBoy

[5.7 MAN]

Modern day "cowboy" loads are pretty light, some barely crack 700 fps. They are meant for fast clearing of very close range steel targets.
A 250 RNFP w/35-40 grns of 3ff is truley a powerful load!

[jhammer]

PA has no minimum barrel length, they just require that handguns and rifles be "manually operated." No semi autos are allowed.

I would like to do more load development with unique. I love it in 38 special, but I only have a little left, and I have been looking for it for quite some time.

The only trouble I am having with any of these load is a build up of lead in the forcing cone. It stops less than an 1/8 of an inch into the rifling, and does not seem to effect accuracy, and a couple of passes with a brass brush removes it quickly.

800x left some carbon deposits in the chamber that were very difficult to remove. AA5 always left my cases black.

I have been avoiding trying to turn this gun into a magnum, but as deer season gets closer I am really starting to think about being able to cleanly kill a deer.

[DougGuy]

You can rent the forcing cone cutter from 4D tools http://www.4-dproducts.com/displayit...=75&tname=tool $30 + $80 deposit + shipping. There is a youtube video of how to use the tool and recut your forcing cone. I do not recommend using the brass lap that comes in the kit for lapping, but I DO use it to back up a piece of very fine scotchbrite that does an excellent job of polishing the new forcing cone!

If you have good eyes and decent basic skills with precision tools, you can do this!

I also take in pistols for forcing cone work but they have to go through my FFL for this and they charge a small fee.

Usually an 11° forcing cone cures a Ruger for shooting cast in a wonderful way. It did my SBH for sure!

Also, and we can discuss boolit design here because it goes right along with the forcing cone. The pics I showed earlier are of two boolit designs that have wide meplat, but a smooth ojive that transitions into a long bearing surface on the sides of the booilt. This design works really well with an 11° cone because the angles are more of a match for each other. In using a Keith type boolit, the sharp shoulder or driving band has to negotiate the forcing cone which causes the cylinder to be rotated until the best alignment is reached with the barrel, and it uses the forces applied against the boolit to do this. Unfortunately when this Keith boolit hits the rather sharp and many times rough factory forcing cone, unless you have near perfect cylinder-to-bore alignment, about 40% of one side of this driving band is going to be wiped off by the forcing cone as the boolit hits it. THIS, is likely why you are leading in the forcing cone. And also why many of your other loads don't group well because the boolit is damaged by the time it gets into the rifling. The smooth sided RF boolits don't suffer as badly as a Keith does. This is why I got away from the Keith type boolits in my own guns and the change was a good one.

If a big bore Ruger doesn't have any detectable thread choke, it isn't hard at all to bring it around to shooting cast boolits really good. It needs 4 things to shoot well. 1. Cylinder throats must be larger than boolit diameter. 2. It needs an 11° forcing cone that is smooth 3. It needs less trigger return pressure (can take one leg of the trigger return spring loose and let it hang or swap in a Wolff 30oz. spring). 4. It needs the right loads developed for it.

Doing these 3 things to the pistol itself is what I call the "fast and easy way" to accurize one. Just simple basic steps that every revolver should have really. You get the most bang for the buck from doing these, doing more like an action job or trigger job is more or less unneccesary as they won't make it shoot any more accurately, just easier and smoother.

SBH after recutting forcing cone to 11° and before polishing:

[jhammer]

DougGuy,
Thank you for the info. I have been considering recutting the forcing cone, it is good to know that that will help. I reamed the cylinder throat myself with the reamer from brownells, and replaced the trigger return spring with the lighter wolf version. There was a little creep in the trigger that became more noticeable with the light spring, so I disassembled the gun and very carefully polished the engaging face of the trigger with a black Arkansas stone. I was very careful to maintain a flat surface and just create a mirror like polish. The trigger is very light, and crisp now. It only took a few passes on the stone.

I really liked the lee 452-255-rf, and may need to lap it out or purchase the NOE single lube groove version. The shoulder on the swc design has always made wonder how it can actually work, but this rcbs 45-255-swc has proven to be an amazingly consistent shooter, and has given me better accuracy they I have ever seen from a revolver.

I am blessed with a reasonable amount of mechanical skill, and enjoy learning and experimenting (within reason). This blackhawk has really taken me on a journey, and is shaping up to be an excellent firearm.

[9.3X62AL]

A 250 RNFP w/35-40 grns of 3ff is truley a powerful load!

Indeed it is. The blackpowder 45 Colt was the Magnum of its day, and in 7.5" barrels easily attained 1000 FPS. I use 10.0 grains of Alliant Herco powder to get 1000 FPS from my Bisley Blackhawk 7.5" barrel. Both Lyman #454424 (Keith SWC) and #454190 (traditional conical flatpoint) work for this application. The Green Dot load you specify may only be yielding 750-775 FPS from your 4-5/8" barrel, but there is an old saying in hunting circles.......velocity is fine, but accuracy is final. If you can place rounds with those 45 caliber 5/8 oz slugs when and where you want, they will make venison for you. The big meplat on that RCBS bullet lets in a lot of air. Archery hunters aren't using a lot of "power" when they stick a deer--place a bullet or an arrow where it belongs, and you will have meat. The most-blooded rifle in my safe is an 1873 Winchester 44-40 carbine, whose 200 grain bullets barely get to 1100 FPS. It served for many years on my great-grandfather's and grandfather's ranches as deer/bear/bad guy disincentivizer, and accounted for at least two black bears and dozens of muleys.

[jhammer]

9.3X62AL,
That is what I was thinking. This load may not be the fastest thing around, but it makes one big hole at 25 yard dead center, and breaks soda cans at 50 yards at will. None of the other loads I have tried have so consistently hit exactly where I want them to. I am confident that I can put this bullet exactly where it needs to be, I just wanted to be sure it can do the job when it gets there. Thank you