444/45-70 wildcat

[10x]

A friend tells me his 444 marlin has a ringed chamber from a a mis adventure with a 44 magnum cartridge being fired in it.
What is the possibility of necking down the 45/70 case to fit a 444 bullet and making a 444 / 45-70 wildcat for this gun?
Any thoughts?

[dh2]

would getting the reamer and dies cost more than getting a new 444 barrel?

[dubber123]

Might be possible, but expensive. I think the reamer will run about $150, plus gunsmithing fees, then there is the question of dies. Unless it has a lot of sentimental value, or he is a .44 bore fan, I would just rebarrel to 45-70. More power, easier to find brass.

[micky_blue]

send it to JES and have it rebored for 225 bucks.

[texassako]

There is already an old, obsolete chambering that is what you are asking for if you really want to go down that path. Ken Howell's book lists a .42 Russian(also called the Berdan). Rim and base are .45-70 size and case length is the same as the .444 Marlin. Rebarrel back to .444 would probably be cheaper in the long run.

[bikerbeans]

I would just have a new 444M barrel installed then nothing else to modify on the rifle.

BB

[357Mag]

10X -

Howdy !

Just thinking out-loud.....

From the case spec's I've seen, the resulting wildcat would have a scant shoulder of only .023".... not much more than half that seen on the .35Rem.

Sounds some what like a few similare case specs were found with the " .44 Ballard Extra Long Center Fire "


With regards,
357Mag

[williamwaco]

The length is the same but there is 0.098 difference in rim diameter.
I would be surprised it if would feed properly without modifications.

[Scharfschuetze]

I'm assuming that this is a Marlin 444, so don't forget that you'll need to either open up the bolt face or get a new 45/70 bolt for the rifle. You may also need to do some work on the follower for it to feed properly.

I am curious though, how did the 44 Magnum ring the chamber of your friends 444? Lots of shorter rounds get fired in several different cartridges without any ringing.

[Geezer in NH]

New barrel IMHO will be way cheaper. someone screwed up that is the cost

[TXGunNut]

(snip)

I am curious though, how did the 44 Magnum ring the chamber of your friends 444? Lots of shorter rounds get fired in several different cartridges without any ringing.

That's my thought too. It's a pain to clean out sometimes but short cartridges get fired in long chambers all the time without lasting damage.

[10x]

I'm assuming that this is a Marlin 444, so don't forget that you'll need to either open up the bolt face or get a new 45/70 bolt for the rifle. You may also need to do some work on the follower for it to feed properly.

I am curious though, how did the 44 Magnum ring the chamber of your friends 444? Lots of shorter rounds get fired in several different cartridges without any ringing.

I was not there at the time, however his story is - he was at the range with the rifle shooting 444 out of it, guy was at the next table shooting 44 mag, he offered the 44 mag guy the opportunity to shoot the gun, 44 mag guy shoot it, said 44 mag would chamber and shoot, and demonstrated. Now 444 cases are very sticky to extract . An amateur gunsmith has said the chamber is ringed. I can not exactly figure out how that happened - I have yet to see the gun.
the guy was asking me what the options were. I told him to either put a new 444 barrel or consider salvaging the barrel with a wildcat.
Either way will be almost as expensive as a new Marlin.

[Scharfschuetze]

When you get the rifle for testing, clean the chamber well with a good bronze bristle brush that is larger than the chamber. Same procedure as removing powder rings in a 357 or 44 Magnum chamber after shooting 38 or 44 Specials in them or a 454 Casull after shooting 45 Colt.

Once that chamber is really clean, a visual inspection may or may not show a ring. If you don't see a ring, you'll not endanger yourself or others if you then take the rifle to the range and fire a 444 round. Examination of the ejected case will indicate if the chamber is truly ringed or not. Bring a good cleaning rod just in case you need to encourage the case out if the chamber is ringed badly. Of course if it is really dinged you should see it on your visual exam.

I can't quite get my head wrapped around your friend's story. I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd bet that the only ring in that chamber is a powder ring from the shorter 44 Magnum.

Please update us when you actually see and fire the rifle.

[Tatume]

Your friend should try thoroughly cleaning the chamber. It may be just some crud causing the sticky extraction.

If that doesn't help, he might be able to polish the chamber a little and get satisfactory results.

Like others have said, the 44 Rem Mag cartridge shouldn't have ringed the chamber.

[nekshot]

I am not a betting man But I would almost bet the family farm that barrel is ok!

[TXGunNut]

I am not a betting man But I would almost bet the family farm that barrel is ok!

I'd bet with (but not against) you but I'm not a betting man either. I've fired hundreds of thousands of .38's in .357 revolvers and a vigorous cleaning would always allow a .357 round to be loaded if I saw the need. One of my "stock" PPC comp guns actually did double duty as a duty gun for awhile and a good cleaning would always allow the duty loads to chamber after a day at the range. In my old PPC guns there is a visible erosion ring just ahead of the .38 case mouth but I doubt the OP's friend's rifle will even have that after a good cleaning.

[10x]

Folks, thank you for your advice, I have yet to see the gun. Or a 444 case fired from the gun.
Measuring a fired case just might provide some answers.
I got a heck of a deal on a 45/70 once that the seller claimed had a ringed chamber - cases fired with smokeless powder would stick.
It was solved by removing the barrel, and running a greased finish chamber reamer into the chamber with a very light full turn.
Fired cases fell out after that.
This gun may need a similar fix