Bullet trap ideas for recycling lead

[JIMinPHX]

I wonder how deep a box filled with crumb rubber would have to be to stop a 9mm at 7yards. For that matter any other typical defensive round .357 magnum out of a 3 inch or less barrel etc.

On the top of this page, post #141 should answer that question pretty well.

[sheepdog]

Yup even a box the size of a large flat rate USPS box would stop most rounds.

I did another test this weekend where all my boxes were still rubber except the last. The last I filled with garden rock like you find on most paths. I blew the holy hell out of the box but was able to stop all rifle rounds, including steel core. Seems by the time it hits the rock its lost all most all of its energy and simply cant move anything that hard or dense. Even if it were going to try to bounce back would have to go through some or all of the box to do it which it doesn't have juice for.

[Baryngyl]

Yup even a box the size of a large flat rate USPS box would stop most rounds.

I did another test this weekend where all my boxes were still rubber except the last. The last I filled with garden rock like you find on most paths. I blew the holy hell out of the box but was able to stop all rifle rounds, including steel core. Seems by the time it hits the rock its lost all most all of its energy and simply cant move anything that hard or dense. Even if it were going to try to bounce back would have to go through some or all of the box to do it which it doesn't have juice for.

Your rocks idea gave me an idea of my own, what if you used the last box or 2 filled with 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so steel ball bearings, they would allow the use of a magnet to remove them from the lead that is mixed in them.

Michael Grace

[Jim_Fleming]

Bear in mind the weight of those same ball bearings...

Also instead of ball bearings which are going to be costly, why not use BB's...? They'd have to be cheaper, (the zinc plated ones, I'd think would be cheaper) plus they have the fact that they're smaller, and would pack more densely. Sort of like using a sand bag, instead of a gravel filled bag. Then add the fact that they're available almost anywhere.

Heh! I was thinking at first when I read this, that the BB's would react to bullet impacts almost like a claymore mine! But what that idea lead to is the fact that with every bullet impact you'd have depletion of the BB's due to the splash effect that bullets are going to have... Pros and Cons either way.

Take Care,

Jim

Your rocks idea gave me an idea of my own, what if you used the last box or 2 filled with 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so steel ball bearings, they would allow the use of a magnet to remove them from the lead that is mixed in them.

Michael Grace

[Bgddy]

On the top of this page, post #141 should answer that question pretty well.

I actually read that post, I just didn't know the distance that it had been fired from and figure that could make a huge difference

[sheepdog]

I actually read that post, I just didn't know the distance that it had been fired from and figure that could make a huge difference

Not really. For me the 9mm from 50 yards or 10 feet seemed about the same penetration.


BTW guys, ball bearings or BBs? You're over thinkin it here. Rocks are free, lighter than steel and no fuss if they break (which you want them to do when they take energy instead of shooting out the back).

[JIMinPHX]

I actually read that post, I just didn't know the distance that it had been fired from and figure that could make a huge difference

Th effect that range has on boolit velocity varies with the ballistic coefficient of the particular boolit. 9mm slugs vary from around .11 to around .21. The chart below should give you a ballpark idea of how a 147-grain 9-mm boolit might behave.

[Jim_Fleming]

Good Point sheepdog...

Wouldn't sand be even better than gravel? then all one would have to do is sift out the chunks of lead when it's all said and done.

BTW guys, ball bearings or BBs? You're over thinkin it here. Rocks are free, lighter than steel and no fuss if they break (which you want them to do when they take energy instead of shooting out the back).

[sheepdog]

Good Point sheepdog...

Wouldn't sand be even better than gravel? then all one would have to do is sift out the chunks of lead when it's all said and done.

Well.. in theory. Only problem is the sand will pour out within a few shots. Nugget sized rocks,.. not so much. This is why the rubber is nice, doesn't fall out very easily. What I'm seeing is the rocks are somewhat packed in the last box so as the boolit hits the rock is doesn't want to give but it does a little so it disperses some of the energy to the other rocks and energy is wasted "cutting" the rocks on jacketed rounds. Lead rifle rounds seem to just flatten like a quarter as they slam into the rock or just get stuck as they wedge between rocks. Keep in mind by this time the projectile has passed through 90% of the length of a paper ream box filled with rubber so the rifle boolit was very little energy left. I'm seeing some jacketed rounds just come to a hard stop when they hit rock. This makes sense if you see the penetration chart on the 03 Springfield wiki which shows 4.80 in for one-inch broken stone and gravel at 200 yards and only 2.2 in of brick masonry. Jacketed I'm using are Greek HXP mil surplus, 1965 lots from CMP.

[Jim_Fleming]

Ahhh... You're right... I completely forgot about sand's tendency to flow...

But there again, you remind me of my comment about using BB's instead of ball bearings, saving quite a few dollars and ball bearings to boot...

I have been following this thread since the day I signed onto this board, and I love this idea. I.E. Trapping bullets for recycling the lead.

I've been doing some serious checking on prices for using 1/2"x12" steel plate, laid in two directions in the trap, the inner layer parallel to the path of the bullet, and the outer layer laid perpendicular to the path of the bullet. Laminated steel as it were, on the order of how true plywood is made. All steel that the bullets will contact, top and bottom and left and right sides, would be angled at 15 degrees to the path of the bullet (30 degrees included angle.) Then the bullets will be gently funneled into a deceleration chamber made out of 1/2" wall x 24" dia. pipe that will have been split length ways, and the two halves will be assembled about an inch or so offset and when the Blue Pills run out of steam they'll just fall into my waiting 5 gallon bucket.

See http://www.actiontarget.com/com_bt_tct.html for where I stole the idea from.

For enough steel to make a trap with an entrance of 24"H x 48" wide, angled and so forth as I've roughly described, it's going to take about $400 dollars worth of new steel... And that sure as h e double l doesn't even include the angle or channel that I'll need to hold the layers in place.

Shazzam dang @&$(!!! That's gonna be costly! But at least I'll be able to recycle my lead (all of it, except for the paper, jackets, other litter and trash... And this'll also include the .22 RF pills and all of my neighbors bullets they periodically fire, etc...

[pps]

Jim, I'll post mine that was built for around 30 bucks. I drive it to the end of the range, drop it off the end of the truck and it's good to go. Shot 500 rounds last weekend and recaptured them all.

[BarryinIN]

Just so you guys know...
Lowe's has the rubber mulch.

Or at least the one in Mooresville, IN has it. It was a little over 8 bucks for .8 cu ft.
I bought four bags.

[Jim_Fleming]

To be honest, Gents, the idea of spending 400+ bucks for the steel alone, not to mention the angle or channel I'd need, then the welding and so forth, is a bit daunting...

Makes the idea of a simple smash/splash plate seem a heckuva lot more attractive.

PPS, I've not gone back thru the thread in the last month, and seen your original posting, is your design back there? If so I'll gladly re-search for your posting(s).

[JIMinPHX]

Jim, if you go with 30 degree included angle on the steel strap, then you probably will not need 1/2" thick steel. 1/4" should be plenty & you might even get away with 3/16. Shooting at a few small test pieces of steel plate in front of a berm should help you determine what you really need. My 45 degree trap was OK untill the velocity got up around 2,000fps. Then the boolits started taking small divots out of the surface of the plate when they hit. A slighter angle would probably have taken care of that problem.

If you go back to page 1 of this thread, you will see the first steel traps that I built. Page 4 has a more useful, crumb rubber based, trap that I built for use with .30 cal. rifles & also some pictures that show the reason I prefer the rubber traps over steel. The steel traps give me back small chunks of boolit & lead dust. The rubber traps give me back whole boolits that are much easier to handle & not messy like the lead dust is.

[leadman]

I've seen Jims' recovered boolits. In a pinch (SHTF) you could probably load these again and fire them.

I'm thinking of building a trap like Jims as his design utilizes low cost material and is light enough to be transported easily.

[Jim_Fleming]

Thanks Gents for the excellent reply, the generous sharing of your knowledge, the courtesy, and best of all the willingness to share and help a person with NO knowledge of trapping bullets.

My original idea was to be able to trap everything. From .22 RF all the way up to and beyond .375 H&H Magnum, if some durned fool ever wanted to play, LOL! I think I was looking to build something fancy like I've seen on the link I posted earlier. Enough of that...

Now here's a thought, Jim in Phoenix, your original box (rubber crumbs inside) was about 24 inches deep as I understand it. And as I further understand it, everything stopped within 20 inches or so from entry...

I am mostly interested in recycling my fired lead, that's a given, along with that I'd like to capture all the lead that me and my neighbors fire at it... Hee Hee! I'm trying get more lead for free, (have I ever told you that I'm cheap a double ss'ed Scots/Irishman? Never mind! that's for a more general forum! )

I think after consideration Jim you've got the cheaper idea, and in fact I'd say it's better, mostly because of costs involved. However I don't really intend to take the one I make down very often. Perhaps once or twice a shooting season/year.

Without hogging the thread, and without making a big deal of all of this, what do you Gents think about creating a box full of rubber crumbs, that'd be about 24' H x 48 W x 48 D?

That'd allow space for two shooters hammering away at the same time, as well as doubling the depth of stopping media.

Jim please bear with me, what did you use in the front of your box to either hang the targets on as well as allowing the slugs to enter the stopping media?

I'm also not going to use steel back plates, simply for the sake of costs. I'll just check the box trap from time to time for exit holes, then clean out the lead etc.

I have more I want to ask but this posting is going to look like I took out a center spread in a magazine...

Thanks again Gents for being so kind,

[JIMinPHX]

I'm thinking of building a trap like Jims as his design utilizes low cost material and is light enough to be transported easily.

Before you go building one, please talk to me. I have spares that I want to get rid of. In developing those traps, I ended up building more than I needed. I'd love to find a good home for one or two of them.

[JIMinPHX]

...as I further understand it, everything stopped within 20 inches or so from entry...
...
what do you Gents think about creating a box full of rubber crumbs, that'd be about 24' H x 48 W x 48 D?

...Jim please bear with me, what did you use in the front of your box to either hang the targets on as well as allowing the slugs to enter the stopping media?

I'm also not going to use steel back plates, simply for the sake of costs. ...

I have more I want to ask but this posting is going to look like I took out a center spread in a magazine...

Thanks again Gents for being so kind,

Some of my 2,000ish fps 150-grain 30-30's bounced off the back wall @ 24", but not that hard. They dented a 2 x 4. When you shoot a lot of boolits into a small group, tunnels form in the crumb rubber & the boolits start to go deeper.

I think that a 24 x 48 x 48 trap is a great idea for a fixed place range. I would put some kind of steel on the back of it though. Even 1/8" H36 with a little wood behind it really does help keep the boolits that found a tunnel from causing too much trouble most of the time. I figure that adding a piece of 1/8" to the back of that thing should cost about $40 or $50.

I just used cardboard on the front of my traps. After about 300 or so rounds, I put up a new piece. With a trap the size you are talking about, you could have about 8 different spots each hit by 300 rounds before you needed to change cardboard. That's well over 2,000 rounds. Not bad if you ask me. Self healing gum rubber would be nice if you were only going to use round nose pistol boolits, but it's a bit expensive & wadcutters punch holes right through it.

Feel free to ask all the questions that you want. We're here to help. I'm glad that the fruits of my labor are able to help someone out.

[Jim_Fleming]

That's exactly, as you can tell, what I'm thinking of is a fixed place range out in my back yard. We use the mountain and the scrub Red Pine trees as a back stop now. If I can get the steel I'll use it. I'm not adverse to the steel idea, in fact I like it a lot. Three benefits of using it are total reclamation of the bullets, the safety factor of no over penetration, and lastly less pollution from the lead.

What I will do, and advise others that're considering something on the order we're discussing is to place it up off the ground, and make some sort of roof/shelter over it to keep the rain and snow off, nothing too elaborate or costly just a few 2x4's and some sheet tin, etc.

I'd not realized you used cardboard, that's simple enough, but it also reinforces the need for some sort of over head cover from the rain, on a fixed place backstop. The cardboard is made with water, folks, and water in the cardboard is going to dump all of your lovely boolits and rubber crumbs onto the ground.

I think that a 24 x 48 x 48 trap is a great idea for a fixed place range. I would put some kind of steel on the back of it though. Even 1/8" H36 with a little wood behind it really does help keep the boolits that found a tunnel from causing too much trouble most of the time. I figure that adding a piece of 1/8" to the back of that thing should cost about $40 or $50.

I just used cardboard on the front of my traps. After about 300 or so rounds, I put up a new piece. With a trap the size you are talking about, you could have about 8 different spots each hit by 300 rounds before you needed to change cardboard. That's well over 2,000 rounds. Not bad if you ask me. Self healing gum rubber would be nice if you were only going to use round nose pistol boolits, but it's a bit expensive & wadcutters punch holes right through it.

[markshere2]

I took this thread as a design starting place.

I have a plywood box 3' tall and 4' wide and about 2' deep.
it's filled with dried wood chips (mulch)
I have it inside an open cage roof support with a tin roof over it.

It's a permanent installation in my back yard ( I live in the woods)

The front piece of plywood will need replaced a few times per year.

It's keeping the bullets inside for now, we'll see how it goes long-term.

My back stop is tires stacked, and filled with dirt.

So far, so good.