Frozen screws

[Molly]

I thought it might be interesting to share all the different methods that have been developed for removing a stuck screw. There must be a ton of them, from penetrating fluids to easy-outs.

One of the very best I ever found was to use a drill press with a screwdriver in the chuck. Fix the rifle (or whatever) in something soldily, such as a stockmakers vice. Or if a pistol, in a real vise with padding. The basic idea is to immobilize the gun, even to the application of considerable force. Because that's what you're about to do.

Set the gun and fixture under the chuck, and lower the chuck until the screwdriver is dropping into the place where the screw slot used to be. Using the height adjustment, apply plenty of force to the screwdriver and rotate the chuck BY HAND to remove the screw. You must grind the screwdriver to the proper diameter, or you will scrape the screwhole. You also need to use a screwdriver of decent quality steel, or you may just twist the screwdriver tip.

You can also lift the drill press cover and hand turn the largest pully for greater force / torque. I've used this technique to remove screws so badly mangled by wal-mart screwdrivers that there wasn't even a screwdriver slot visible any more: Just a sort of wide valley where the slot used to be. But with a drill press and plenty of downward pressure, the tightest, rustiest mangled screw will just back out like its momma told it to behave or get spanked.

Of course, a little penetrating fluid and / or a little heat to encourage it won't hurt anything, but I have not found them to be necessary.

OK, who's next?

[jmsj]

Molly,
For frozen screws that penetrating oil won't get, try putting the screwdriver bit in the slot and tapping w/ small hammer. The impact some times will break the screw loose.
If the area where the screw is not heat sensitive( heat treated, casehardened or will melt), heat the screw w/ small jewlers torch till the head just turns orange, be very careful, remove screw right away. This has never failed to get a frozen screw out but it has limited use on guns because of the amount of heat needed.
If the head is snapped off or too torn up to use screw driver; drill out w/ left handed drill bit. About half of the time the left handed bit will unscrew the bit while drilling. Used this method just the other day to remove a broken gripscrew from a 1911. jmsj

[JMtoolman]

I have also used my engraving tools to recut slots in screws where the slot has already been destroyed by the wrong screwdriver. I have also used this where the screw has been snapped off. Of course I have also drilled out the center of the screw, and used an left handed ez-out on them. A left handed drill also works. The tooolman.

[calaloo]

When all else fails there are places that will get the screw out with EDM. Results guaranteed.

[John Taylor]

Had a stock maker in the shop last week. He glass bedded the tang screw in and it would not budge. Brand new stock and a late model 86 that looked new so using a torch was out. I had him hold a soldering iron to the head of the screw for a while and it came out.
I think I have used most of the methods at one time or other. On old rusted screws the penetrating oil gets used first, with a proper fitting screw driver. If that does not work then heat if it can be used without hurting something ells. Have used pressure from the drill press, in my case it is a vertical mill. The last Sharps that came in with stuck screws had been through a fire. Had to drill most of the screws out and retap the holes.

[Bret4207]

From the "Shop Tips" sticky at the top of this page-

Gotta fresh cup o'joe and I'm going to try to think of a couple things here-

Removing frozen screws-

1. The screwhead/bolthead is in good shape-
A. Find a screwdriver that FITS THE SLOT (very close fit end to end and in the slot of the screw) grind or file the screwdriver to fit if needed. With Phillips head/Torx head/Allen head you just find the one that fits best and maybe grind/file a bit off the end for a really tight fit. Set the screwdriver bit tightly into the slot and strike it 4 or 5 times with a hammer, a plastic mallet, brass or copper hammer, anything under 10 oz. or so. Don't try a 16 oz. claw hammer on a 6-48 screw because you can drive the screw through the threads. IOW- use an appropriate sized striking instrument. Try this several times and se if that doesn't work.

B. A doesn't work- Try turning the screw "FORWARD" or into the work. This is simple but a lot of times it works. If it turns into the work even a bit, just rock it back and forth a bit and it may come out. If it moves at all apply a solvent/oil/penetrant. Work the screw with the oil on it and it may back right out. This also covers the previously unknown "LEFT HAND THREAD". I worked for hours on a payloader once trying to remove a lug nut. An old drunk guy, ( he was REALLY good at drinking), asked me if I'd thought of it being a left hand thread. He may have been a drunk, but he wasn't a stupid drunk.

2. Add in here that the screwhead is buggered up already.

C. A and B don't work. Now we go to heat. If someone lock-tited the screw in it amy well resist all the solvents, etc. Get a soldering gun/iron and get it up to heat. Leave whatever oil, etc is on the screw head as it will keep th solder from sticking. Make sure the soldering gun/iron tip has a "wet" look to it. Thats melted solder and is yoour heat trasfer source. A dry tip will take forever to heat you article. Apply the tip to the screw for maybe 45 seconds or a minute. You may see/smell the oil you used spitting and smoking. Thats good, it means the heat is transfering. Once your godd ol' common sense says it's time put the soldering gun/iron down wherte it won't start a fire and immediately try the screw. You can also do this with a very small flame out of one of those micro torches but you chance over heating things and scorching any nearby wood and loosing the blueing in the area.

C2- For buggered Torx/Allen/Socket head or hex head screws and bolts. Vicegrips, over size Torx/Allen head wrenchs, driving a flat tip screwdriver bit into the hole, E-Z outs. At this point you're less concerned with recovering the screw and more concerned with geting the darn thing out. E-Z outs rarely work IMHO. For socket or Allen heads try driving a slightly oversize Torx bit into the hole. Works better than any E-Z out I've used. Almost always works. For hex heads you're into Vicegrips, those sockets specificaly designed for removing rounded off bolts heads, I forget the names, Sears has them, or even welding another nut onto the bolthead so you can get a good grip. I doubt you'll use that on a gun, but maybe on a car or tractor. Works on busted studs and such. Sometimes a flat blade screw driver can be driven into a phillips slot, and I mean driven into it, and it will work. Othertimes you can chisel or Dremel cut a new slot in a screw and get it. Obviously you have to use extreme care for the surrounding metal/wood or you'll make a real mess. Trust me, I've done it a thousand times! This is probably a good time to step back and stare at the problem for 15 minutes or so. Have a sandwich and a drink and give the screw a minute or two to think about repenting and backing right out. Oddly enough it sometimes seems to work. There may be gremlins hanging onto the threads that give up after some in-activity, I don't know. It works sometimes, thats all I can say. You may have a brainstorm at this point and discover how to get it out too. Don't go to a "bigger hammer" at this point unless you can control the ol' temper.

D. A,B and C don't work after repeated attempts. By now any Lock-tite type product will have given up the ghost from the heat and any rust would have been handled by the solvent/heat/tapping. We're into metal on metal galling most likely. You've got a cross threaded, cockeyed jewel on your hands. That or your into the infamous broken and boogered screwhead/bolt head. Here are your options-

1. Take it to a gunsmith/machine shop and have them remove the part.

2. If you have the ability and confidence AND the proper tools you can try drilling the screw/bolt out on your own. We're talking a drill press and a good vice mounted to the drill press, center drills for starting, accurate center punching, sharp undersize drill bits for the hole, good cutting oils, and the knowledge of when to STOP. Left hand drill bits (yeah, they're real) may work here and bring the screw right out, or they may not. Worth a try if you have them. If you are thinking you'd do it, then you probably already have the tools. Read Brownells "Gunsmiths Kinks" , all 4 volumes, to find a bunch of methods to do this and a lot of tricks to make it easier. If this sounds like certain disaster, then go to the gunsmith/machine shop. Just be honest and admit you don't want to risk screwing up the item big time and that you don't have the equipment to do this. It doesn't mean you're not a man or that you're a failure. It means you are smart enough to stop before you loose a bunch of $$$$$.

[Lead Fred]

Anyone dealing with screws should always own a impact driver.

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000723.php

This is one of the costly one. I bought mine for $20 in the 70s. You can still get them at Harbor Freight and other discount tool places.

With a bit set for small screws, you can get any screw out.

[Mk42gunner]

One thing I have done to remove stuck bolts and rusted in bearing races on tractors and trucks; I would not do this on a gun; is to heat the part until the penetrating oil boils. This gets the oil thinner to really flow, plus the different expansion ratios worling to break parts loose.

It also makes a dandy flame,if you're not careful.

The last thing I used this option on was getting the lower bearing race out of the steering gearbox on my L175 Kubota.


Robert

[Caveape]

I just can't believe none of you more experienced guys have mentioned the HOLY KROIL. Yes, the HOLY GRAIL was in fact full of Kano Kroil and it is the best penetrating oil ever made. I've heard that the hinges on Heaven's Gates are lubed with it.
It creeps into places down to a millionth of an inch!

When I find a bolt, nut, screw or any other fastener that wants to be stubborn, that's the first thing I reach for. It has not let me down yet.

It's not just for rust prevention, barrel cleaning and mold maintenance.........it is the Liquid of Life.

FWIW,

Caveape

[Charlie Sometimes]

PB is another great spray can product. Maybe better than Kroil in the case of stuck or rusted screws. Yea, I said it! BETTER than the Holy Kroil. I've used both on screws and bolts that have been out in the weather for 20 plus years, and PB did the job that others couldn't in THAT application.

[mdi]

Anyone dealing with screws should always own a impact driver.

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000723.php

This is one of the costly one. I bought mine for $20 in the 70s. You can still get them at Harbor Freight and other discount tool places.

With a bit set for small screws, you can get any screw out.

Being a mechanic, I have used impact drivers quite a bit. One heavy duty that uses 1/2" hex bits (Mac), one medium that uses 3/8" bits (Craftsman) and I'm looking at a mini that uses ground 1/4" bits with a spring handle (need to wait for this month's pension check ). But Kroil is always on my bench too.

But then, I rarely need any because I'm an expert and always use the proper tool/size screwdriver for the job!

[dominicfortune00]

PB is another great spray can product. Maybe better than Kroil in the case of stuck or rusted screws.

I really like PB for use on aluminum. Seems like it will dissolve the aluminum corrosion around a steel bolt to allow it to be removed. Also on the heat riser valve in the exhaust on the car.

Ever spray PB in a styrofoam cup? It'll dissolve the cup pretty quick.

I like Kroil for use on steel.

On of the guys at work used to work on heavy equipment and he told me that to get those long pins out, like in bulldozer track, he would take a torch and burn the center of the pin out. After that it would come out pretty easy.

[a.squibload]

Honed my screw removal skills on motorcycles & Jeeps.
+1 PB Blaster, especially if you soak it for a while.
+1 tap screwdriver to shock screw vs hole, use steel on steel for best effect (no absorption of impact),
and appropriate size hammer.
+1 weld new hex head bolt onto screw (probably not practical for firearms).
+1 impact driver, need to "load" driver in proper direction before smacking.
REALLY +1 on using proper size tool to begin with!

Have used easy-outs a lot, usually the smallest sizes are the most useful. There's a type
that has a square cross section, sides have grooves (flutes?) to give it a bite.
Had a set of those that was made of softer steel than the bolts, useless.

Drill press great idea, will give that a try if I ever find another stuck screw.

[heathydee]

A friend from work would regularly bring his BMW motorcycle around to have the sumpguard bolt which he had sheared off in the alloy casting removed . It was not really his fault . The stupid bolts had a 6mm shank and a 19mm head for the reason of fitting a rubber grommet between the sump and the sumpguard and the sump-guard had to be removed to change the oil I believe . He generally had snapped the bolt off flush with the casting and I found the easiest way to remove them was to lay the bike over on its side (fuel tank removed and battery disconnected) and use the MIG welder to gradually build up the shank of the snapped off bolt ,a blob at a time ,until it could be grasped with a pair of vice-grips and removed .

[hhranch]

Several times I have had Allen head scope screws "round out" when trying to remove them. Usually not set in that tight to begin with, but with a soft Allen wrench and/or soft head, they will often slip to the point they cannot be moved. In those cases, Iwould select a drill slightly smaller than the screw head and drill the head off. At that point the mount base can be removed and there should be enough of the screw standing above the surface to get a pair of pliers, vice grips, etc. on it and turn it out. Several times I have been able to turn them out by hand after removing the head and base - this can be very exasperating. If all else fails, you should have enough screw out of the hole to use a cutoff wheel in a Dremel grinder or a screw slot file to slot the screw and turn it out with a screwdriver.

[smokemjoe]

Heatthe part up and apply beeswax and let it cold, The wax will go down into the threads , works on rusted bolts -screws.

[JIMinPHX]

In really extreme cases, I mig weld a nut on top of the screw head & use a wrench to spin it out. The heat from welding seems to loosen up the stuck threads. Obviously, the hex nut is something that's good to get a grip on. I get the best results from this method by turning the screw out right after the orange glow goes dull. This works especially well for broken off exhaust bolts on shovel heads.

Sometimes, just taking a flat punch & hitting the head of the stuck screw with a hammer will break the bond that is holding the screw tight.

Left handed drill bits work well in some places, like when the screw breaks off in the end of a cam shaft on a Harley or Norton. Those are natural applications for a left hand drill bit because the case hardened end of the cam shaft guides the bit right to center. I don't know what idiot designed a #10 screw with a 9/16 hex head on it for that application, but he should not be allowed near a drawing board ever again.

For rounded out Allen heads, you can now buy tapered hex tools that you drive into the rounded fastener with a hammer. They work well. McMaster Carr stocks them.

Filing flats on the side of a pan head & having at it with a wrench or vice grips works about 80% of the time.

The old center punch & small hammer trick works in many places too.

[Mk42gunner]

Another trick for rounded out Allen heads is to drive a Torx bit into the hole, they are usually enough harder to cut into the haed and allow you to turn it out.

Robert

[deerslayer]

All of the above methods are great and I have used most of them but for a normal screw that requires a screwdriver that is stuck I use pb spray first and then a dab of valve grinding compound on the head to help the screwdriver grip and hit it with cordless electric impact driver with the appropriate bit. These tools are great the vibration breaks it loose but the torque is controlled which doesn't strip out the head like a regular drill will.

[a.squibload]

...then a dab of valve grinding compound on the head to help the screwdriver grip...

Dang, like sand on the street in winter, sounds good.