Romanian M69 .22 Military Training Rifle

[Jim Sheldon]

Guy advertised a Romanian model 69 (1983 vintage) military .22 trainer on our local concealed carry board for $100. He posted pix and it didn't look too bad, so I jumped on it. He even delivered it and I had it in hand within an hour from the "I'll take it" post. I've seen them cheaper as well as quite a bit higher so I figured I couldn't get burned too bad (I didn't).

Stock finish needs a bit of work as I knew from seeing the initial pictures, but mechanically it's in excellent condition with a shiny, sharp bore. No import markings on it that I've been able to find either.

The stock has a shiny (probably shellac) finish on it that's chipping so I'll strip it tomorrow and once I get it down to bare wood, I'll give it a few coats of boiled linseed oil and finish it off with Tom's 1/3 wax (1/3 BLO, 1/3 turpentine and 1/3 natural colored beeswax). Should come out looking pretty nice. There's only one pretty big dent in it that may or may not steam out.

The metal has some wear and a few scratches in the bluing but some Brownell's Oxpho blue cream should fix that and then it'll have a nice place in the gun rack.

It does have the European 11mm groves on the receiver so it can be easily scoped. I'll probably put a BSA "Sweet 22" on it if it turns out to be as good a shooter as these usually are.

Jim

[Freightman]

Look at the target above in "Cheap .22 ammo choice"close to the bottom.

[Jim Sheldon]

Look at the target above in "Cheap .22 ammo choice"close to the bottom.

Yup, mine turned out to be a good shooter as well. Took 'er to the range this morning and had a few feeding problems with it. Wound up putting about 50 rounds down range loading singly as it kept jamming and wouldn't feed from the magazine. I figured out that the firing pin/ejector wasn't retracting when you closed the bolt to pick up a new shell out of the mag and it wasn't letting the head of the cartridge slip under the extractor far enough. The firing pin/ejector had a burr on it and when I removed it , it actually was cracked across the retaining pin slot.

Went looking for anyone that actually had them in stock but didn't have a lot of luck. Decided to at least strip the shellac off the stock and start the refinish process. Wonder of wonders, when I removed the butt plate, in the cleaning kit hole, was a paper wrapped package containing (count 'em) TWO brand new firing pins. Needless to say, I was a happy camper and now that it has a new firing pin/ejector, it feeds flawlessly and ejects empties clear across the room!

Stripped the ugly, shiny shellac off the stock and put two coats of Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil on it, buffing between coats with 0000 steel wool. Going to let it set overnight and then use some 1/3 mix stock wax to finish it off.

The "before" pix is in first post, and here's a pix of the re-finished stock before waxing and I'll post a final pix after I get a couple coats of wax on it.

Also a pix of a 25 yard target I shot with it this morning. I had to load single shot and also cobble up a cardboard pinhole to put over my glasses so I could see the sights and the target at 25 yards. My 68 year old eyes don't work like they used to when I was a kid - The ammo was 38 grain Federal plated hollow points in the bulk pack from Wally world.

Jim

[Artful]

Love mine - I think you'll find the rail on the top isn't a built in scope rail (though many have managed to use it as such) it's a rail put in for assembly. some are wide enough to take a scope ring without modification some of us have to bodge it to work - I'm thinking of changing to a Pitcanny rail on top of mine.

[Jim Sheldon]

Love mine - I think you'll find the rail on the top isn't a built in scope rail (though many have managed to use it as such) it's a rail put in for assembly. some are wide enough to take a scope ring without modification some of us have to bodge it to work - I'm thinking of changing to a Pitcanny rail on top of mine.

Yeah, I found that out. I have the machine tools available so I'm going to drill and tap it for a weaver rail mount in the Ruger 10/22 hole pattern. Waiting on a 6/48 tap and the rail to get here from Midway.

At my age, I need optics to shoot much beyond 25 yards and this rifle has shown it has the capability to shoot real nice groups with the cheap Federal ammo. It actually likes the 38 grain hollow points much better than the 40 grain "Target Grade" stuff. Now, my Anschutz 1451ST likes the Target Grade better. Go figure

[Artful]

If you run into some of the old russian ammo - Volstok, Junior, Wolf etc give it a try - I was pleasently surprised by the accuracy - that stuff wasn't doing much out of the 10/22 but the 1969 loves it's home spun eats.

[Jim Sheldon]

If you run into some of the old russian ammo - Volstok, Junior, Wolf etc give it a try - I was pleasently surprised by the accuracy - that stuff wasn't doing much out of the 10/22 but the 1969 loves it's home spun eats.

Here's a comparison target out of the Romy M69. The top target was 5 rounds of Federal 38 grain plated hollow point ammo out of a 550 round value pack and the bottom was 5 rounds of 40 grain Federal "Target Grade" out of a 325 round value pack. Both groups were shot at 25 yards with the rifle in original configuration, iron sights.

Got both boxes of ammo a couple weeks ago at the local Walmart.

Jim

[WILCO]

The firing pin/ejector had a burr on it and when I removed it , it actually was cracked across the retaining pin slot.
Went looking for anyone that actually had them in stock but didn't have a lot of luck.

Hey Jim,

That's a common problem with these great little rifles.
I found a owners manual on-line written by Mr. Paul Liska that has a mechanical drawing to machine a replacement firing pin/ejector. The manual is well written and worth it's weight in gold. I posted about it some time ago, here's a link:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ght=m69+manual

Manual link: http://www.arnoldline.com/Paul/RomanianM69.html

Hope this helps.

[Jim Sheldon]

Hey Jim,

That's a common problem with these great little rifles.
I found a owners manual on-line written by Mr. Paul Liska that has a mechanical drawing to machine a replacement firing pin/ejector. The manual is well written and worth it's weight in gold. I posted about it some time ago, here's a link:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ght=m69+manual

Manual link: http://www.arnoldline.com/Paul/RomanianM69.html

Hope this helps.

Wow! Yes, even though I've got it pretty well figured out and found 2 spare FP/Ejectors stored in the cleaning well, I need to get me one of those manuals just to have. I have the entire mechanics of this thing pretty well figured out now.

Gathered up my courage and decided to see if I could manage to drill & tap it for a scope mount myself without screwing it up too bad. Figured since these things aren't really prime collector's items and I only had a hundred bucks in it, even if I didn't get it right, it would still shoot with irons. Ordered a 6-48 tap & drill set and a Weaver rail with a Ruger 10-22 hole pattern from Midway which came this morning.

Prepped the flat glare reducer on top of the receiver by coating it with "White Out" and carefully marked the center line with a pencil. I squared up the rail and centered the pencil line in all four holes which I then marked with a transfer punch. Further deepened the dimples with one of those spring loaded center punches and checked to make sure all 4 dimples lined up with the pencil line and the hole centers in the rail.

Once I was satisfied that they were marked & punched right, I clamped the receiver in my drill vise using some scrap leather on the jaws to keep from dinging the metal and leveled everything up using a chunk of 2 x 4 and some other scrap as shims under the barrel. Set the depth stop on the drill press so it wouldn't drill too deep and still allow enough depth to get enough threads in the holes for the mounting screws to snug the rail up tight. Next I carefully drilled all four holes followed by tapping them (used cutting oil so not to break the tap off. That would have been nasty).

Everything went smoothly and the whole operation only took about 45 minutes, including cleanup and mounting the rail.

I had some 1" rings and a BSA "Sweet 22) scope that wasn't being used so I mounted it. After making sure the vertical cross hair was aligned perpendicular to the bore (clamp the rifle in a shooting vise, level the flat top of it and sight on a plumb line hanging on the wall while carefully tightening the rings in a cross pattern to keep it straight).

Worked like a champ. Now for another trip to the range to sight it in, finish the job and then on to thump some tree-rats!

[WILCO]

Looks great! How about some close up shots of your handi work?

[Jim Sheldon]

Looks great! How about some close up shots of your handi work?

I probably should have taken pix during the process of that drill & tap job, but I was wanting to get the job done as I had a lane reserved at the range. I'd have to remove scope and rail to show it off, and I sort of don't want to do that now that I have the screws on the rail set with loc-tite and the scope mounted & zeroed.

Here's a scan of the initial 50 yard sight-in target. It doesn't group quite as tight as my Anschutz 1451ST, but it's dang close! Wasn't using a rest per-se, just my elbow on the counter - indoor range, no wind. Ammo Federal 550 round bulk pack from Walmart, 38 grain plated hollow points.

The second target is one somebody over on The High Road concocted for the October rimfire match. My order of shooting it was Lighter, matchstick and then the candle. 5 shots per image and the object was to put all 5 in the flame of each image. As I said, it's starting to settle down now from a clean start. The match was to be shot at 50 yards if using magnified optics and 25 with irons. I had the BSA Sweet 22 scope set to 9 power.

Jim

[jednlulu113]

New to this site, new to my newly acquired Romanian plinker. Got mine just a few days ago for $100 bucks as well. Overall seems to be in decent shape but, has the same jamming trouble when attempting to load and occasional misfire. Looking closely at the firing pin, it appears to be alittle worn at the striker but not cracked or anything. I'm wondering, like the retainer on the opposite side of the bolt, is the firing pin supposed to be under some type of load, via spring or other? Mine glides freely about 1/8 of an inch linearly and about 1/8 of an inch "away" from the bolt or out of it's slot...is this normal? I know that I need a new pin but I'm worried I need something else too...I found a website that offers the pin for only $10 bucks a pc which I thought to be a reasonable deal...I'll probably order 2 and stuff the extra in the cleaning well like Jim mentioned. Interesting feature there!
Figure I may as well post that site here for any other fella that stumbles upon these posts:
https://www.apexgunparts.com/product...roducts_id/978

Any advice on this?
Also, any idea where I might acquire a stock clip? (Mine says "Made in Taiwan", thought that might have something to do with the feeding issues).
And, how about stock cleaning kit?
THanks for any feedback!
Jason (aka Jed)

[WILCO]

Welcome aboard Jed.
Read my post at number 8 of this thread. There's a great manual written for these fun little rifles that covers problems which might arise.

[Jim Sheldon]

New to this site, new to my newly acquired Romanian plinker. Got mine just a few days ago for $100 bucks as well. Overall seems to be in decent shape but, has the same jamming trouble when attempting to load and occasional misfire. Looking closely at the firing pin, it appears to be alittle worn at the striker but not cracked or anything. I'm wondering, like the retainer on the opposite side of the bolt, is the firing pin supposed to be under some type of load, via spring or other? Mine glides freely about 1/8 of an inch linearly and about 1/8 of an inch "away" from the bolt or out of it's slot...is this normal? I know that I need a new pin but I'm worried I need something else too...I found a website that offers the pin for only $10 bucks a pc which I thought to be a reasonable deal...I'll probably order 2 and stuff the extra in the cleaning well like Jim mentioned. Interesting feature there!
Figure I may as well post that site here for any other fella that stumbles upon these posts:
https://www.apexgunparts.com/product...roducts_id/978

Any advice on this?
Also, any idea where I might acquire a stock clip? (Mine says "Made in Taiwan", thought that might have something to do with the feeding issues).
And, how about stock cleaning kit?
THanks for any feedback!
Jason (aka Jed)

Been out of touch for a while and missed this post Jed. The firing pin is supposed to move freely and no spring. If it's worn on the striker end, that could easily cause the misfire. Apex gun parts (which you've already discovered) has the firing pins. When you replace yours, you may find that it's slightly warped from the stamping process. If so, you'll need to straighten it carefully so that it moves freely and smoothly in the bolt channel.

The firing pin is also the ejector, so it must retract as the bolt starts forward to pick up and chamber a new round. This is caused by the bolt catch pushing on it. If your bolt catch is worn, you might need a new one of those as well. Check Numrich (www.gunpartscorp.com) as they often have a few parts. The magazine (clip) also could be the problem but these are hard to find as well.

There is a guy over on www.rimfirecentral.com who actually makes a delrin single shot adapter for the M69. It usually needs sanding/filing to fit properly as no two M69's are exactly the same, but once fitted it works. It's a bit pricey at 20 bucks, but is a useful item to have on hand. Makes it a bit easier to load single rounds.

Paul Liska's "A Guide to the .22 Caliber M69" is almost a "must have" book. It's really the only available manual for the rifle and he can be contacted through his email address romanian69@webtv.net The cost of the book when I ordered it was $6.50 and I think shipping may have been included in that price, but I don't remember for sure. Email Paul and find out. There is a whole wealth of troubleshooting info for various problems with the M69 in that book and a bunch of fairly clear photos of all the parts and how they go together.

Jim

[jednlulu113]

Thanks a lot WILCO and Jim. I'm ordering new firing pins and the manual today. I'm pretty sure I need a clip too as the "ramp" in mine is really pitted and worn....surprisingly, the barrel is super clean and you can really see depth in the rifling spiral. Maybe the clip was used prior to mating with this gun? Dunno but, wow, she sure is accurate.
I'm a gun novice, have lots to learn...for sure. But, with this plinker, I can keep a pattern within 3" on a target 120 yards out. So far that I can't even see the black circle on the 8-1/2"x11" target...but can still drop them right in it! Amazing rifle and I'm very happy with it.
I found a sight that offers used stock cleaning kits for $20 but am assured that the bristles are shot. I could just pick up a new one of the bristles, I think that this feature is just the neatest thing.
THanks again for your tips and advice, I'll be sure to keep ya'll updated. Have some Happy Holidays and God bless.
Jason

[jednlulu113]

Any advice on proper removal of the pin that retains the firing pin?

[corvette8n]

Here is one of the two Romanians I own, this one has non matching numbers so I decided to strip and bleach the stock, it is earmarked for my grandson.
btw I paid $50.00 at a gun show cause the dealer couldn't get it to feed, all I did was tweak the mag and it works ok.

[Jim Sheldon]

Any advice on proper removal of the pin that retains the firing pin?

They need to be driven out from the underside of the bolt toward the top. I broke a couple of punches and had to very carefully drill mine out. I then used a split type roll pin to replace it with. That's all I can tell you. If you wind up doing this, make sure the roll pin will fit the slot in the firing pin and allow it to move smoothly.

Oh yeah, if you get one of those cleaning kits, if it's complete, it contains the proper punch to remove the pins for both the firing pin and extractor. That was part of the kit. I bought one and it was complete and the cleaning brush was thick with cosmolene. A good bath in brake cleaner brought it back to life. Wish I had gotten the kit before I had to drill out the capture pin.

I don't recommend doing what I did, but sometimes "ya gotta do what ya gotta do!"


Jim

[jednlulu113]

I share that same mindset....I can probably count on one hand the number of times I paid someone to do something for me. I at least have to give it a try! Thanks for the tip Jim. By the way, Paul Liska asked me to tell you hello. Thanks again for your help.

[Jim Sheldon]

I share that same mindset....I can probably count on one hand the number of times I paid someone to do something for me. I at least have to give it a try! Thanks for the tip Jim. By the way, Paul Liska asked me to tell you hello. Thanks again for your help.

Paul was real nice when I ordered his book on the M69. Wow, that's a well written and very useful manual. He also kindly send me a couple of hardened steel pins to make it easier to drive out those keepers. I had already drilled the firing pin keeper out before I got them, but they came in very handy on the extractor.

That info I posted regarding Aumi's website also contains info on working over the trigger pull.

Another website (and I don't remember which one now) but google may find it had info on making a new extractor. He re-contoured the new one similar to a 1911 .45's extractor for better reliability.

Using his pictures, I just re-contoured my original to look about like the one in his final picture. Got lucky and it really works like it's supposed to now.

Jim