300 AAC Blackout

[P.K.]

One thing that prolly has been stated somewhere else is the interchangability of uppers with one lower provided the magazine size. Also, no SN#'s on those uppers....oh my!

As for reach, how's this on an AR?

http://www.tactilite.com/

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

The 300 BLK was originally designed for Military/LE. They had envisioned it as a suppressed round mostly. Think 240gr bullet at 1060 or so fps. It = 44 magnum factory lead loads for ME, and thirty of them in an unmodified AR magazine.

There are now two factory loadings, one subsonic heavy bullet, and a 125gr SP at close to 2200fps for anything smaller than Elk.

And now, due mostly to NOE's designs, we have a plethora of cast boolets to work with.

I built an AR pistol, and am horsetrading for one of the Mark X mini-mauser actions to build a nice lightweight rifle on.

It's a very cool thing...

Rich

[Landric]

I'm interested in the Blackout because of its heavy bullet/subsonic qualities and its easy compatibility with the 5.56mm AR platform. There is a lighter bullet supersonic Blackout loading that is similar to the 7.62x39mm ballisticly, but it doesn't interest me much. For supersonic .30 caliber cartridges I am more interested in the .308 and .30-06.

I'm in the process of selecting a suppressor for my 9mm AR. A 9mm carbine/subgun suppressor will also work perfectly well with the subsonic .300 Blackout. As with all NFA stuff, its a process. It would already be done if the tax on suppressors was $5, but since its $200 it takes longer to work out.

[Artful]

Landric make sure you get a cleanable 9mm can as you'll be shooting cast subsonic
- if you haven't looked at Liberty's mystic 9mm multipurpose can, I would suggest you do.

[daschnoz]

They reinvented the wheel. "Full power 123 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK..."

SWALLOW YOUR PRIDE, ADMIT THAT THE RUSSIANS GOT IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, AND JUST ADOPT THE RUSSIAN ROUND ALREADY!!!!!!

[MT Chambers]

I wouldn't consider the Russian offering, not if I want to hit the target, besides it's like comparing apples to oranges, the Whisper needs fast twist to stabilize long bullets fired subsonically. I've used the Whisper for years with cast bullets and it's a great cartridge to play with, but I found that stability decreased with lower speeds so you really have to match rate of twist with the bullet you plan on using. I do not consider it a proper "big game cal." for large Canadian game.

[Springfield]

daschnoz: I would have liked to use the russian round but apparently they don't work so well with the standard AR magazines and we in California are not allowed to buy any new mags that can handle more than 10 rounds, hence my plan to get a .300 BLK upper.

[Ed in North Texas]

daschnoz wrote: "7.62NATO - because shooting something twice with 5.56NATO is just plain silly."

I would totally agree with that, if an 11B (111.xx in my younger days) could only carry 2 rounds of 5.56 for each one 7.62 he could carry. AND if the trains could only move 2 5.56mm for each 7.62 that could be moved. Since neither of those propositions is true, it isn't silly. We, sadly, are no longer a "nation of riflemen" and any advantage in number of rounds available we can give the infantry is worthwhile. OTOH, we also have a need for real riflemen with cartridges which can reach out an touch someone (short of .50 BMG, that is - also needed, but not so many).

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Artful convinced me to go the YHM Cobra II 9mm suppressor. I can shoot 300BLK sub as well as the 9mm upper I have for my SP-1

Rich
once an 11F4P
Sua Sponte

[Artful]

Rich, there you go blaming me again - I just give options as I find them
- suppressor tech keeps evolving - just look for something cleanable
YHM Cobra II is another option
(remember to coat any cleanable can with Never-Seez, so you can get it apart when you need too)

[Artful]

They reinvented the wheel. "Full power 123 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK..."

SWALLOW YOUR PRIDE, ADMIT THAT THE RUSSIANS GOT IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, AND JUST ADOPT THE RUSSIAN ROUND ALREADY!!!!!!

Ah, just to remember history
- The Germans came up with intermediate round in 1938 - enter the 7.92x33 Kurz
stifled by Hitler and other ruling Nazi's (thank god) who demanded 7.92x57 for troops,
it wasn't in wide spread use for most of WWII - the regular army using WW1 bolt action Mauser 98's and K98's...
The Kruz fired 125 grn 8mm bullet at 2,250 fps for MP43, MP44, STG44 aka Sturmgewehr 44,
and Sturmgewehr 45 among other weapons used in later days of WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92%C3%9733mm_Kurz

7.62x39 came out 1943, in RPD MG - and also in SKS and later AK47.
The cartridge remained the Soviet standard until the 1970s, and is still one of the most common intermediate rifle cartridges used around the world. It was replaced in Russian service by the 5.45×39mm cartridge which is used by the current issue AK-74 and variants.
And is the basis for PPC cartridge family (known for accuracy in benchrest guns) - My bolt action 7.62x39 will hit well to 500 yards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x39

Neither of the above was designed for subsonic loadings specifically. Neither was set up with fast twist barrel for heavy bullets.
Enter the 300 Whisper developed by J.D.Jones...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Whisper
The Whisper was specifically designed to work in AR platform as both intermediate 125 grain supersonic load at 2,100 to 2,300 fps and with heavy 240 grain projectile subsonic load at 1,040 fps cartridge. With Suppressed weapons with fast 1:8 twist barrel. This was developed at request of SOG for use in behind enemy line missions to "snatch" key personnel. J.D.Jones developed a few cartridges to try and meet the needs of black ops missions and the 300 Whisper was the best answer - the 300 Black Out developed by Remington/AAC is more commercial cartridge for same purpose with very similar dimensions.

Sorry for the lecture but just want to keep who did what straight for people new to discussion.

[ilcop22]

I wouldn't consider the Russian offering, not if I want to hit the target...

It's quite an accurate cartridge, just like many other .30 caliber loads. Problem is if you're only shooting it out of an AK, you're not going to get much accuracy out of it. Barrel length is minimum, sight radius is too small, and the AK pattern is inherently inaccurate when compared to it's NATO counterparts. In this case it's not the round, so much as the machine spitting it out and the sub-spec Russian stuff we like to eat up here in the states. I'm, of course, talking intermediary cartridges (CQC/Sub 300) and not real rifle cartridges (7.62 NATO, 7.62x54r)

[P.K.]

The Whisper was specifically designed to work in AR platform as both intermediate 125 grain supersonic load at 2,100 to 2,300 fps and with heavy 240 grain projectile subsonic load at 1,040 fps cartridge. With Suppressed weapons with fast 1:8 twist barrel. This was developed at request of SOG for use in behind enemy line missions to "snatch" key personnel. J.D.Jones developed a few cartridges to try and meet the needs of black ops missions and the 300 Whisper was the best answer - the 300 Black Out developed by Remington/AAC is more commercial cartridge for same purpose with very similar dimensions.

LOL! Sorry, Where's my tin foil hat?

I can't remember where I heard it but the .300 Whisp is reallllly popular with Inuit folks for taking seal quietly. Pop one and move to the next w/o scaring the whole gaggle back under the ice.

[Artful]

I did see some evidence of AR-15 or M16 in AK but I was told by a local it was because lots were part of the guard or something and a 30 round mag of 223 was considered good on polar bear!

I was also told the biggest bear that had been shoot was by a woman with a 22 LR !!!

[P.K.]

I did see some evidence of AR-15 or M16 in AK but I was told by a local it was because lots were part of the guard or something and a 30 round mag of 223 was considered good on polar bear!

I was also told the biggest bear that had been shoot was by a woman with a 22 LR !!!

The first wouldn't suprise me a bit, considering they don't shoot em for their hides and most of the time the buggers are tearing into buildings. As for the second not alot of diameter size diffrence in the two, but if it were a Ruger and a Hi-Cap mag I could see it happening. Alot of people scoff at the venerable .22LR but it just keeps filling the pot day after day.

Not a LR but still a 22, specificly the 22WMR or was it the WRF? IDRC, but my dad knew this one bird back in the day when Maine wasn't the vacation spot it is today who would routinley thumb his nose at hunting regs and take large Whitetail all year round with the above mentioned round.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

If I "care enough to send the very best..."; it would be a tidy Boom-Boom pair of 500gr bullets at 2180 or so fps out of my Searcy Double Rifle.

The handgun is designed to keep you alive until you can get to your rifle...
Some guy named Cooper told me that about thirty years ago.

Rich

[leadman]

I have had a 300 Whisper for about 10 or 12 years now. Load it with 300/221 dies, make my brass from 223. My chamber actually has a longer neck and I can use brass about a tenth of an inch longer than the 221 reformed to 300 Whisper. Rifling is 1 in 8.
While it is a very accurate cartridge and I have taken game with the 125 gr Ballistic Tip I would call this a very specialized cartridge. If you want to hunt with the heavy bullets my finding are you need an accurate rangefinder and either a mil-dot scope or target style turrets. The drop on the heavy bullets make accurate range estimating critical.
If I was varmint hunting or in a combat situation the 223 or 7.62X39 would be a much more user friendly cartridge. A 308 would be close to ideal or a fast 6mm.

I think many shooters are going to invest in the blackout only to be discouraged with the need to estimate range closely, especially with the heavy bullets. The lack of long range accuracy of the lighter bullets, especially if they use the Hornady 110gr 300 Whisper ammo may also discourage some. For those that just go out and blast away at 50 yards they will be happy.

[P.K.]

If I "care enough to send the very best..."; it would be a tidy Boom-Boom pair of 500gr bullets at 2180 or so fps out of my Searcy Double Rifle.

The handgun is designed to keep you alive until you can get to your rifle...
Some guy named Cooper told me that about thirty years ago.

Rich

I can agree with your opinion to a point sir. Today we are talking semi-auto's and gang-bangers. I'm using a 1911 with 8 round clips as a PDW and access to my 6.8 in seconds if my route is clear. If not I'll clear it and end all discussion if "match" bullets make decent man/game stoppers.

The world changed on 9-11 and was changing slowly but surley before that. Your methods can work with one or two targets, what if you have more than two? 1000 grains is great, for two targets. Sir, I'm sorry but if I had a choice....It would be the 17 rounds available at my side untill I could get to my rifle.

Respecfully,

P.K.

[Artful]

I'm using a 1911 with 8 round clips as a PDW and access to my 6.8 in seconds if my route is clear. If not I'll clear it and end all discussion if "match" bullets make decent man/game stoppers. ...

P.K.

I'd be testing those on Water Jugs, Jello, and whatever else I could find to see if they preform as you want - is the T.A.P. made for 6.8?

quick googly-ooglie found

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De...ndex.htm#6.8mm SPC

http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/6.8SPC/faq.php

[P.K.]

I'd be testing those on Water Jugs, Jello, and whatever else I could find to see if they preform as you want - is the T.A.P. made for 6.8?

quick googly-ooglie found

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De...ndex.htm#6.8mm SPC

http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/6.8SPC/faq.php

I have two mags C-products loaded with 110 BTHP Match(25 rds.) from Hornady.

Honestly? TAP? forget it. OH AHHHHH all the hype is good and the data is sound.....Guess what, nothing matters when lead is flying....If it works.....USE IT!.

I went with the load I did because it's a man stopper pure and simple. Ammo companies can go on about the latest and greatest, 168 gr HPBT was good enough for Carlos, any HPBT moving at a high rate of speed with the ballistic data to back it up is enough for me. She may not nushroom but it does open enough so that the Hydrostatic shock does it's job.