Invest in a cast friendly AR upper, or swaging dies?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I just became the proud owner of an AR and have come to realize how expensive it will be feeding it factory j-words. I have come up with two possible solutions.

1) Buy 22lr to 22CF swaging dies and go to town making my own j-words.

2) Invest in a new upper that is chambered in a more cast friendly caliber. I have the 300 whisper/blackout in mind but would be open to suggestions.

[sparky45]

I went with the 300 Blackout and am in the process of working out a load with a cast boolit. Right now I have a 311414 and next Tuesday should have the NOE 311365. One in ~150gr and the other ~ 200gr. The real problem is finding a load for these boolits and to be able to get them to cycle the action when switching to sub-sonic loads.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

The 300 looks to be an almost perfect cast boolit round with its small case capacity, big heavy boolit, and low velocity. The only problem would appear to be the chance that the lube could migrate into the powder do to the short neck and deep seated boolit, any thoughts on this?

[scb]

The only problem would appear to be the chance that the lube could migrate into the powder do to the short neck and deep seated boolit, any thoughts on this?

That's why this one was designed as it was.

311247 original discussion---> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ghlight=311247

If you think you might want a lighter boolit/bullet take a look at the 7.62 x 40 Wilson Tactical. I've been shooting the 7.62 x 40 more than the 300 Whisper since I got it.

[alrighty]

I was trying to decide what to do myself and here is what I have decided.I am going to buy a .300 for a fun cast boolit gun.I have signed up for the group buy mold going on now.I would love to have a swaging setup for the .223 but for now I can buy the pulled military surplus j words in both 55gr and 62gr cheap.

[oldsgm]

You can shoot cast out of an AR upper if your so inclined. I run RCBS 55 grain spire points over 22 grains of WW-748. I completed a 500 round cast bullet test, and found I only had minor leading on the bolt and accuracy (only tested at 25 yards though), didn't change significantly during the course of the test. I fired 500 rounds without cleaning the gun to test functionality of using cast bullets in an AR.

[GabbyM]

I like the 6 x 45mm in concept. Easy case forming and 6mm bullets I cast for my 243 Win are about as easy to make as 30 caliber but still easy on the lead supply.
Unless you need a heavy bullet or are looking at suppressed guns.
With a 1-12” twist barrel they will shoot the 80 grain Speer flat base spitzer soft point to almost 3,000 fps. 25-223 would be another interesting round. A 25 caliber with a 1-14” twist would probably make the better cast bullet shooter and small game round.
If you like longer necks you can push the shoulder back on surplus 223 brass and make a 6-222 or 25-222. Plenty of case capacity for cast bullets.

For a while I thought about making a 6x45mm bolt gun but my 243’s shot so well there didn’t seam to be any point in it. Not enough for another $600 rifle anyways. Kind of liek me buying a Winchester 94 in 30-30 last week puts a cimp on rationalizing a 300 blackout AR in a state that does not allow surpressors.

[xacex]

Blackout! I like the idea of saving .22 casing, but it is a lot of work to turn them into bullets. Never mind the cost because they are about the same.In fact the blackout upper can be built for less I believe.
Nevermind, It will cost a little more for the 300, but it is worth it in my opinion.

[runfiverun]

i have thought about this one for a day or so now.
i bought a second ar just to build [have built] a 300 aac upper and i was gonna use the rcbs 165 silh boolit pushed hard [1900 fps] in a 10 twist bbl.
but have ended up swaging for it. [shrugs] somehow littlegirl got involved with this gun, so i'll probably end up with a third one to try again with.
the first is an armalite m-15 n.m. and it isn't getting changed.

[paul h]

I'm curious how many rounds you plan to run it to where swaging becomes cost effective. Midsouth varmint nightmare bullets are still fairly reasonably priced, and if you put any value on your labor, you'll be in the 5-10,000 range before you break even.

I don't have a problem buying bullet molds when they pay for themselves within several hundred bullets, and I can taylor them to my guns. But with 22 caliber j-bullets, I just don't see the economy.

[Moonie]

I use cast in 5.56 uppers, what's the issue?

[runfiverun]

it's not always about cost effictiveness.
i always have a supply of 22 jaxkets,and i can tailor the same 60 [whatever] bullet to make it do what i want.
soft and explosive for ground squirells.
change the annealing ,bond the core,add a canellure,add a two part core,trim the jaxket, and i have a 50-75 gr bullet for bigger stuff.
i still shoot cast in the 22's mostly the 22-250 and my bolt gun 223
and both cast and swaged in the 220 swift at fast 223 velocities.
it's just another choice in ammo,and i don't have to buy gas checks.

[popper]

sparky45 - adjustable gas block!. Lube isn't a problem in 308 so 300 should be OK. You don't have to run them subsonic.

[Moonie]

sparky45 - adjustable gas block!. Lube isn't a problem in 308 so 300 should be OK. You don't have to run them subsonic.

Why do you need an adjustable gas block? The 300AAC Blackout was designed to shoot supersonic lighter weight boolits and subsonic 200gr+ boolits without needing an adjustable gas block. This isn't a 300 Whisper we are talking about (which does require an adjustable gas block to do the same thing due to gas port size differences)

[ckcadavona]

It depends on your intentions but as already stated you can shoot boolits in either cartridge. Do some searching on .223 twist rates and the 300BLK is obviously cast friendly with a plethora of options from 130-250gr!

[RU shooter]

I would and did go with the 300 blk. especially if you already cast for 30 cal . seems like its alot less work to cut down 223 brass. I'l be shooting mine by the weekend I just got the email that my 12 twist barrel is finally done

[xacex]

I use cast in 5.56 uppers, what's the issue?

I tried to imitate your load for the bator, but it wouldn't cycle in a real dissapator, and it wouldn't hit a gallon milk jug at a 100 yards. Not your fault, but the 300 blackout worked better for me. I still have hopes of building a 1/12 twist AR in 5.56 to try it again, but until then my bator mold is used for slugs for soft points. To your credit I did give some to a neighbor with a 1/9 twist carbine, and they cycled fine, but still couldn't hit a milk jug at 100 yards. Maybe I just suck at putting on those little gas checks.

xacex

[johnly]

Haven't gotten around to shooting cast in my 6.8 SPC upper, but my Colt 7.62x39 upper is good for 2 MOA at 100 yds using a simple red dot sight. With ~150 grain cast bullets start at 13 gr. of 2400 and adjust the load to provide reliable cycling without pitching the brass across the field.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Well I decided to go with a set of 22cal swage dies from BTSniper here on the forum.

I chose to go with swage dies for several reasons. First of all I really like the 223, and reforming a bunch of 223 brass to a 30cal of some sort did not appeal to me. Second I have other 22CFs that have been shot very little because of the cost of factory j-words, hopefully swaging shall remedy this fact. Lastly I simply wanted to give swaging a try because it is something I have not done before and looks like a lot of fun.

I'll have to post a follow up thread once my swage dies arive and I start load development.

[Lawyerman]

I think you made the right call. I know it's heresy but .22 cast at 3000 fps just isn't very practical for MOST reloaders. Add in a semi auto rifle etc....and it's just too much to monkey with and trouble shoot when the solution is right in front of you.