Trying lead in my 357 and 45.

[357Ruger]

I loaded 100 rounds with 2.7grs of Trailboss behind the Speer 148 HBWC. Shot them through three revolvers all with throats measuring right around .358 and experienced no leading in the barrel. Just a smidge of leading in the throats on one gun.

The same load behind Magnus 148 HBWC did not lead the rifling either but leaded up the cylinder throats bad. Anybody experience this and have a recommendation how to alleviate it? Do I need to increase the powder charge behind the Magnus bullet?

Thanks again for any help.

[357shooter]

Bass Ackward in post 4 gave the right advice. Start working up with the Magnus until it clears up. Working up the Speer should take care of that leading too.

[Bass Ackward]

I loaded 100 rounds with 2.7grs of Trailboss behind the Speer 148 HBWC. Shot them through three revolvers all with throats measuring right around .358 and experienced no leading in the barrel. Just a smidge of leading in the throats on one gun.

The same load behind Magnus 148 HBWC did not lead the rifling either but leaded up the cylinder throats bad. Anybody experience this and have a recommendation how to alleviate it? Do I need to increase the powder charge behind the Magnus bullet?

Thanks again for any help.

Since you are comparing apples to apples that should both be about the same hardness, I'd guess lube. Always pays to have a bottle of LLA sitting around as a tool for a real quick check.

[357Ruger]

I pulled some of my 148 HBWC bullets and measured them. They measured .3565 just from the loading process. I think that might explain why there was some slight leading with the Speer bullets and a lot with the Magnus. The Speer bullets have a much tougher coating (supposed to be Hi-tech whatever that means) so they only displayed slight leading in one revolver. That revolver did have the loosest throats running close to .358.

The Magnus leaded badly only in the throats so I'm assuming there wasn't a good seal while passing through the throats. I'm still not sure why the Magnus bullets didn't lead the barrel after leading the cylinder throats. Maybe somebody could explain that to me.

[357shooter]

I pulled some of my 148 HBWC bullets and measured them. They measured .3565 just from the loading process. I think that might explain why there was some slight leading with the Speer bullets and a lot with the Magnus. The Speer bullets have a much tougher coating (supposed to be Hi-tech whatever that means) so they only displayed slight leading in one revolver. That revolver did have the loosest throats running close to .358.

The Magnus leaded badly only in the throats so I'm assuming there wasn't a good seal while passing through the throats. I'm still not sure why the Magnus bullets didn't lead the barrel after leading the cylinder throats. Maybe somebody could explain that to me.

Magnus swaged bullets are lightly harder than the Speer, which is probably why they leaded the throat with the same load. By the time they got to the barrel they probably obturated or bumped up.

The soft swaged bullets will swage down a bit once in the brass. I wouldn't worry much about their size as this approach is to have them bump-up to your throat and barrel size. Using a charge big enough to do that is the goal.

Have you continued to work up the load a little at a time as the leading should clear up completely. I'm not familiar with Trail Boss, the HBWC's usually work very well with fast powders like Bullseye, 700x, and also HP38. There's a bunch of others like Clays that work well too.

[357Ruger]

Magnus swaged bullets are lightly harder than the Speer, which is probably why they leaded the throat with the same load. By the time they got to the barrel they probably obturated or bumped up.

The soft swaged bullets will swage down a bit once in the brass. I wouldn't worry much about their size as this approach is to have them bump-up to your throat and barrel size. Using a charge big enough to do that is the goal.

Have you continued to work up the load a little at a time as the leading should clear up completely. I'm not familiar with Trail Boss, the HBWC's usually work very well with fast powders like Bullseye, 700x, and also HP38. There's a bunch of others like Clays that work well too.

Thanks again for the info. I'm putting some loads together to shoot on Monday. Unfortunately that was the last of my Magnus bullets. I have plenty of Speer bullets left.

[357shooter]

Thanks again for the info. I'm putting some loads together to shoot on Monday. Unfortunately that was the last of my Magnus bullets. I have plenty of Speer bullets left.

Those wadcutters and the 158 wadcutters are great to load and shoot. Wish I knew more about Trailboss, I don't think Hodgdon lists it for the 148 HBWC, but work it up a bit more and see how it goes. Do you have a recipe from another source?

[357Ruger]

Those wadcutters and the 158 wadcutters are great to load and shoot. Wish I knew more about Trailboss, I don't think Hodgdon lists it for the 148 HBWC, but work it up a bit more and see how it goes. Do you have a recipe from another source?

The only 148 HBWC recipe I have is from Hodgdon's website and it is for the 38 Special. They list 2.3grs as producing 15,700psi and 675fps in a 7.7inch barrel. I can say 2.7grs behind that bullet in 357 cases is a pipsqueak load. Off a rest my 5inch 7 shot 686 will but a cylinder full into an inch or inch and a quarter consistently (using a Burris FastFire II).
I've got loads ready to go with 3grs and 3.3grs to see if that cures the slight leading issues in the throats with the Speer bullets. I also located about 30 more of the Magnus 148 HBWCs I will try with 3.3grs since they leaded the throats pretty badly with 2.7grs.

[Bass Ackward]

I don't know how familiar you are with HBWCs of any brand. And understand they have been shot for decades so I am not trying to be alarmist here.

The danger with them is that the lube breaks down on the skirt (bearing area) and galls. (binds)Pressure continues to build and gets high enough that the nose separates from the skirt and continues on to the target.

You notice a hole so that you you think everything is fine. The skirt becomes an obstruction for the next bullet.

So leading isn't the only thing you need to be conscious of. Actually, in this case, leading is a good thing. You are most vulnerable with loads worked up in a fouled bore fired later in a clean gun.

[357shooter]

357: Good luck.

[357Ruger]

I don't know how familiar you are with HBWCs of any brand. And understand they have been shot for decades so I am not trying to be alarmist here.

The danger with them is that the lube breaks down on the skirt (bearing area) and galls. (binds)Pressure continues to build and gets high enough that the nose separates from the skirt and continues on to the target.

You notice a hole so that you you think everything is fine. The skirt becomes an obstruction for the next bullet.

So leading isn't the only thing you need to be conscious of. Actually, in this case, leading is a good thing. You are most vulnerable with loads worked up in a fouled bore fired later in a clean gun.

Thanks for the safety reminder.

[unclebill]

Thanks HeavyMetal.


(If someone reads this in 2015 and my post count is still 12... it didn't work, and I blew myself up

HAHAHAHA!
that cracked me up!

[thegreatdane]

Thanks HeavyMetal.

Sure, I have no problem with a little oversize, I just don't know when "little" ends and "are you fscking nuts?" starts

Yup, I have the Ken Waters bible, so I understand the case mike thing, will do that. In my experience, primers don't lie, as long as you listen, and don't try to interpret them to suit what you want the truth to be.

(If someone reads this in 2015 and my post count is still 12... it didn't work, and I blew myself up

So, did you blow yourself up?

[357Ruger]

I thought it would be nice to give any interested parties an update on my leading issues.

The faster I drove the Speer or Magnus swaged bullets the more they leaded up each guns rifling.

Driving the Penn hard cast bullets with full house charges of Enforcer, AA#9 and 296 cleared up most of the leading with those bullets. They still left streaks in the rifling. Even when I had them sized to .360 and verified them with my micrometer.

Some of you suggested the lube was the culprit and 2 dogs recommended firelapping.

Firelapping definitely cleaned up the machine marks in the throat and rifling making the guns much easier to clean. I was scared to death when I first tried it but it worked so well I've done about five guns.

The firelapped guns lead less but I was still getting leading with the above bullets.

Recently bought some Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) and coated some Penn hard cast and Magnus swaged. My leading problems seem to have disappeared.

Those of you that cast your own probably have a much better lube than we non-casters get with commercial lead bullets. Anyone experiencing leading with cast may want to try LLA to see if it clears up the problem.

By the way I tried Meister and Laser Cast bullets and they leaded up my bores like the Penn bullets prior to LLA.

Hope this is useful to some others trying lead bullets for the first time.

[thegreatdane]

Hey thanks for the update! Glad to know you've found a solution.

[Retro]

(If someone reads this in 2015 and my post count is still 12... it didn't work, and I blew myself up

Figured I should check in

OK, so I got hold of a set of gauge pins and checked the cylinder on my 44 Magnum Astra. .433 and a hair, all of them*. So I sized some boolits to .433 (biggest size die I have) and shot them this morning (yea, it took me a while to find the round 'tuit).

1320 fps, 26 spread, Sd of 9. Sounds great on paper. But the 50m group is 230mm, that's more than 8"...

For the same amount of powder etc, I got about 250fps less using a .429 cast bullet. And groups around half the size.

So yes, the oversize boolit will size down, pressure will be higher, but groups won't always improve.

* I sold the Ruger I mentioned in my original post. Bought a Freedom Arms 454. Damn thing shoots a foot high with 45 Colt ammo and I don't have any 454 brass, will have to get a taller front blade made. Yet another project...

[375RUGER]

So I have this 44 Magnum revolver where the biggest cylinder throat measures .435, the next one down .4345 and the other four .434. No worries there, I have the recent group buy .434+ mould.

However, the barrel slugs .422 (about) and .430.

What's going to happen if I try to squeeze a .434 bullet down that barrel? Or should I just go for it and watch out for pressure?

go for it. I shoot .434 down a .430 barrel.