Tell me about casting for 5.56

[mdi]

I am looking at casting 45 gr. Lymans for my .223. In my reading/research (see Castpics articles on .223 cast bullets) I've found that the bullet casting isn't a problem, it's driving the lead slug fast enough to cycle the AR action. From what I remember, the velocities/pressures needed (2200 fps+) are difficult to reach successfully (leading, accuracy, etc.)...,

But, I could be wrong, I don't have an AR and I only shoot my .223 one at a time

[Doggaroon]

Has anybody used the master caster, or only hand casting the 22

[Baja_Traveler]

I cast and load for the .22 LR using black powder. They are super accurate out of my 39a for the levergun silhouette matches, and not too difficult to cast. Once I get the mould to the proper temp on the hot plate, I hold it up to the sprue of the bottom pour pot to pressure cast for perfect fillout.

My next rifle will be a .22 Hornet, and I'm on the group buy for the 225107 NOE mould. Can't wait to get that one up and running...

[badluther]

I am currently in the process of load development for the Mihec 22 Nato bullet with a Freechex GC and White Label BAC lube. The poster who had issues keeping the mold hot is right. Those small bullets just don't have much mass. One thing I noticed in applying those small GC's is that sometimes they would go on crooked when going through my Star sizer. I noticed NOE sells a chamfer tool to correct that and make it easier to get the GC's on straight. I have a Hornady Bullet puller that will hold that tiny bullet and use the NOE tool to knock the edge of the base. I will post my data (chrono, etc) once I get all my data collected. OP, I'm glad you posted. I like seeing more people getting into the .223/5.56mm casting.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I had a lot of problems with 22 casting when I first started, but finaly settled on the highest temps the electric pot would produce. Fill out with WW and a little tin is great. I don't use a hot plate as it was too much trouble to cast a little then reheat the mold and cast some more. My 4-20 Lee pot set on high will keep the lead at around 900+ degrees and it works great for 22 boolits. I use a lead thermometer to keep track of the melt temprature. Heavy boolits such as 100 gr and on up require lower temps.

[.22-10-45]

The new RCBS 55 FN in pic in post #17, below is the original RCBS 55 gr on the left and the RCBS 60 gr .228" on the right. I'm not a fan of such a thin front driving band and suspect it's why it doesn't shoot as well as the new 55 grainer. The 60 Grain .228" was for the old Hornet larger bores that was the standard back around WWII.

Rick

The early .22 Hornet bores were actually tighter..the first were re-chambered .22 rimfire barrels. I wonder if that .228 bullet is for the Savage High-Power?

[Bad Water Bill]

The early .22 Hornet bores were actually tighter..the first were re-chambered .22 rimfire barrels. I wonder if that .228 bullet is for the Savage High-Power?

I was thinking the same thing.

IIRC the early Hornets were 223 and in some cases 222. The only cartridge in 228 is a Savage Hi Power

Trying to push a 228 bown a 222 or 223 tube could get VERY interesting if you are 50 feet away when it goes BANG.

[cbrick]

Fill out with WW and a little tin is great.

My 4-20 Lee pot set on high will keep the lead at around 900+ degrees and it works great for 22 boolits.

Nope, no tin in that melt.

Tin looses it's ability to do what you put it in the melt to do past 750 degrees, that is to reduce surface tension by reducing oxidation. Tin itself oxidizes much faster past 750 degrees but even the tin that is not in contact with air still does not have the ability to reduce the surface tension.

This isn't my oppinion, it's the metallurgy of Pb/Sn alloys.

Rick

[cbrick]

The early .22 Hornet bores were actually tighter..the first were re-chambered .22 rimfire barrels. I wonder if that .228 bullet is for the Savage High-Power?

You could be right, seemed that I read somewhere long ago it was the Hornet, maybe not.

Rick

[35remington]

mdi, incorrect. It is quite easy to obtain velocities that cycle the action with appropriate powders that also produce very usable accuracy when shooting cast bullets in an AR 15.

Do a search. It's been done to death here. No need to fear either .22 cast bullets or accuracy/cycling issues in an AR.

[Rich22]

5 Cavity is good enough, just don't want to be using a 2 cav as that would take roughly forever and a day since I plan on needing 500-800 of these a month easy. I am just about frustrated enough with picking a caliber that I am likely to just buy both barrels. Good info here guys, this is WAY more than I have ever read about casting for 223 before.

Don't get me wrong, I do cast for 22's, but of all the casting I do, I save it for last. Haven't had any luck with my Bee, but will try a Hornet now. 223, not bad. I have 4 moulds for the 22. Do get them HOT. They cast well.

If you go 30, a six cavity mould, hmmm. The NOE 311-155 just made, should work well, but its only a 5 cav. at the most. Can't think of a 6 cav, tl mould that might work, someone else might know of one, but at the moment, not me.

[RetAFSF]

well, when i get my molds I'll let you know

[Moonie]

Truly epic response, even had to tell the wife, well if that is the case then the choice is very very easy. Looks like a 300 Blackout is in my future, 6 cavity tumble lube mold ideas anyone? I don't hunt so really doesnt matter as far as expansion. I will have to look into how to make my own gas checks also, have done very little reading on that. Though most of the time I will likely be going with fairly low velocities.

Thanks again

Rich

I have cast for both 300 Blackout and 5.56 in the AR platform. The 300 is much easier. You will not find 6 cavity lee molds for this however I do have a new 2 cavity 155gr .312 lee mold that feeds and functions beautifully.

[GabbyM]

IMHO:

If you are looking to shoot 223 Rem with cast a 1:14” twist barrel is the way to go.

6mm-222 with a 1:14" twist barrel would be high on my list for an AR platform boolit shooter.
6mm-223 (6 x 45mm) would be second.
222 Rem with 1:14 twist third choice. Better case capacity for cast bullets over 23 Rem and you can form cases from junk NATO brass or go up to new Lapua match brass. I've not studies feed reliablility of the 222 in an AR however.
5.56mm NATO and 223 Wylde chambers would be out of contention. Due to there free bore length. I've shot my 5.56 NATO AR with cast with average results but match shooting does not call for average results. Not to say no one should press a 5.56 NATO into service as a cast bullet shooter. Just no reason to buy a barrel chambered in it to shoot cast.

I cast both 22's and 6mm bullets. Like the 22's fine and both my 20" barrel AR's will function with them OK. Thing is I love 6mm boolits shooting from my 243 AI. Right now my 243 AI's have 1:10 twist barrels so they shoot quite a bit slower than my 223's. Nobade in this thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ldcat-6mmX222/ publishes his results with a bolt gun and 6mm-222.

Of course you can get very good velocity from a 1:14" twist 223 Rem chamber and not have all the trouble and expense of wildcat laoding dies and barrels. My 223 Rem VLS with 1:12 twist barrel shoots MOA with no trouble but it's a 200 yard gun. My cast boolit laods in 223 Rem will outshoot M193 NATO Ball at 200 yards. I'ts my understanding that is a common result. But then it's not to hard to out shoot M193 Ball rounds. Only load work I did on 223 Rem with cast is reading here on others results. Then just cast some up with a good hard alloy and started shooting.

For function In AR’s with slower boolits simply cut your recoil spring down until it works with your load. Few dollars will by a spare spring for J bullet loads. No issue with ID as the cut down spring will not have its tight coils at one end.
Both my 20 inch barrel AR's will function with 14.5 gr of H4198 but my new rifle will only lock the bolt back upon the magazine folower instead of back of magazine where it's supposed to be. I don't shoot either AR with cast as I have bolt guns for that function. But then I don't shoot auto laoder pistols anymore either because I'ts to much trouble to pick up brass. Give me revolvers and bolt or lever guns and I'm a happy boy.

222 Rem does not heat up a barrel near as much as the 223 Rem will. In a HB varmint rifle the 223 is good IME for eight shots before heat mirrage fouls your aim. Compared to three shots from a 243 Win, J bullet max loads.
You can always download a 223 Rem to 222 Rem velocity to near neutralize this but the 222 Rem is still a better rapid fire 100 yard round with J bullets IMHO. Not many J bullet shooters limit themselves to a 100 yard rifle target though. With cast bullets the 223 gives you nothing over the 222. I’d be shocked to hear any argument against the 222 in 14 twist not being the boss 22 caliber boolit shooter. Necked up to 6mm should makes it that much better a boolit shooter.

Some may argue a tighter twist used with the RCBS 95 grain cast bullet to be a better choice. My opinion is the 95 grain bullet is the better choice when you have a standard 243 with 10 twist barrel. While shorter 6mm boolits from slower twist barrels will shoot right past the heavy slow ones.

Was all that sufficiently confusing for you all?

[uscra112]

Other than for the challenge of it, I just don't see the worth of casting for the .22 at all. OK, a .22 boolit makes a dandy squirrel or rabbit harvester if you lean that way, but for that business the Hornet is the case to use, not the 5.56, and a good bolt gun or single shot is the rifle, not a semi-auto. For my money, the .25-20 is the smallest boolit I want to be involved with.

[.22-10-45]

Nothing wrong with a challenge..When my custom single shot in .22 Hornet was finally finished..I handloaded every jacketed bullet..including some expensive match grade ones. This established my benchmark..Now I could start doing what I had always dreamed of..shooting cast in a .22 centerfire. A few custom nose-pour moulds, special nose-first sizing dies, a tapered sizer to match throat leade angle..(front band)..and 5 years later..I finally was able to equal the best jacketed match bullet accuracy. But I'm still experimenting..just last weekend was out with re-formed Eagan MX22 (Corbin reloading-press swage dies..reform nose to curved ogive with flat nose). Was grouping in 1/2" at 100yds. New powders to try, small pistol primers, etc. It never ends..I could never go back to merely picking a commercial jacketed bullet out of a box and stuffing into a case again!

[cbrick]

It never ends..I could never go back to merely picking a commercial jacketed bullet out of a box and stuffing into a case again!

I like the way you think.

Rick

[35remington]

No need to cut AR recoil springs down, either, as 18 grains H4895 functions my AR's and locks the bolt back. My midength AR will function on as low as 17 grains.

These are 1-9 twist, capable of handling the standard military jacketed bullets while giving good accuracy with cast as well.

Nothing special or exceptional is needed. Just shoot what you brung.

Let me point out that the functioning I'm speaking of is not speculative. I shoot cast in AR's.

This beats opinions obtained by guessing. Just trying to set the record straight. No need to fear cast in 5.56 AR's, either for function without modification or accuracy.

[badluther]

Other than for the challenge of it, I just don't see the worth of casting for the .22 at all. OK, a .22 boolit makes a dandy squirrel or rabbit harvester if you lean that way, but for that business the Hornet is the case to use, not the 5.56, and a good bolt gun or single shot is the rifle, not a semi-auto. For my money, the .25-20 is the smallest boolit I want to be involved with.

I cast boolits for .223 because it' cheap and faster (to make) than swaging in the quanities that I need. Just depends on your needs.
With that said, is anyone using Tac powder with cast .223 bullets?
I am currently load testing with IMR 4895 but it only fills half the case. Seems to shoot okay, just used to a near full or compressed load.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have been doing it for years, I guess I'm wasting my tin I'll have to try it with out the tin. Thanks Rick. I do know though that that temp works best for me for 22 boolits.