NOE Mould problem..

[Beagle333]

3000 !

[SwedeNelson]

Some good advice above
Gear and fastglock about hit it on the head
Posted a thread here that may help:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ith-NOE-Moulds
You can always give me a call too

Swede Nelson

[geargnasher]

In the interest of protecting the innocent from perpetual myth, and in an effort to present a broader perspective to some of these topics, consider this:

750 is too cold for best fillout. Rubbish. I can achieve perfect fillout with alloy barely hot enough to dribble out of the spout. The trick is mould temperature. Do this some more and you'll learn that pouring overheated alloy into a cold mould is a lousy band-aid for the real problem, which is your casting pace. Tin loss is very minimal even while using the ladle. Stir and flux every 20-30 boolits. While some folks tend to panic unnecessarily over things they read, I don't call needing to reduce the oxide scum every 20-30 boolits "minimal". If you don't "Chernobyl" your alloy, you would need to reduce oxides much less often to keep the tin from oxidizing out in large quantities. Do not listen to old wives tales of loosing too much tin. It isn't an old wive's tale, but proven, scientific fact. Many will not know the difference, but some will due to the nature of their shooting goals. Do not use sawdust if you want clean boolits...simple parafin wax will work. If sawdust makes YOUR boolits dirty, fine, don't use it. I use it in a way that doesn't contaminate my boolits, as do many others, so advising against its use may deprive someone reading this thread of one of the most useful casting tools available, provided they understand that improper use can make ash inclusions. I have described here many times how to use sawdust for complete alloy maintenance (reduction and fluxing) rather than just saying that it will make dirty boolits and writing it off. That said, paraffin wax does indeed make a decent sacrificial reducant, but not such a great flux if your alloy indeed needs contaminant removal.

Hard Linotype will work better...even while casting at 800 degrees. RCBS recommends hotter temps with your alloy if you read instructions that come with thermometer

If you think linotype is the answer for fast twists, there are a few things you haven't tried yet that might impress you. If you want an appeal to authority on alloy temperature, The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Ed. recommends 100 degrees F. above the full liquidus point of the alloy. I've tried it every way possible and tend to agree strongly with Lyman on that, though not with everything they publish. For tin-rich linotype, that means about 575F. Try it sometime, but be prepared to adjust your casting pace to keep heat in the mould. Heating a lead alloy that contains tin above the point of about 750 degrees defeats the protective tin oxide barrier that forms on the flowing stream of alloy and allows lead and other metals in the mix to begin oxidizing on the flowing surface. The other metals do not flex and flow as well as the protective tin oxide barrier, thus increasing the apparent "surface tension" of the flowing metal, which decreases it's ease in filling the mould. Much of the reason people add tin to casting alloy is to help the flow, but if you're going to run the pot at 800F you might as well be using only lead and antimony because a lot of heat DOES make low-tin alloy fill the mould better.

Tin does something else important metallurgically for boolit alloy, but that is a topic for another time.

Gear

[tomme boy]

Gear I'm glad you typed it all out. I did not want to.

[longbow]

Cast at a regular quick rhythm to keep the mould hot.

Also, as mentioned, check sprue plate tightness, it should almost swing free ~ if too tight air may not escape under it. It may help to put a slight (oh so slight) bevel at the top mating faces of the mould blocks to allow air to escape under the sprue plate... just break the edge with a diamond hone of very fine emery like 600 grit.

Also, I usually pre-heat until the sprue plate lube starts to smoke a bit. The mould will be just under the melting point of the lead then and it will take a few seconds for the sprue puddle to freeze. the mould will settle in and cool a bit as you cast but that should get you going.

NOE moulds seem to like to be run fast and hot ~ not so much lead hot but mould hot.

Longbow

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I think 376 Steyer may be on to it: Poring from altitude or pressure casting?

I had same trouble recently with a mold, and pouring the alloy in faster -- and having about 2 inches between ladle and mold -- solved the problem.

As for smoking the mold, a controversial topic, I always do. For me, I feel it helps with bullet release, and to some degree with decreasing wrinkles.

Getting the alloy above 750 never seems to help me. Having the mold warm enough does. I am currently warming mine initially on the electric stove with the mold covered with aluminum foil. I like to cast fast enough the bullets are just starting to frost.

I find all molds are different. Some like to be filled hard and fast, others are not picky. Some want to be held at a specific angle, some don't care. The aluminum molds cool faster than iron or brass. Your mold will tell you what it wants.

Do a little experimening, and the continue with what works for you.

[Paulinski]

Thanks for replies everyone...Ain't this forum great

I will try again and will cast with all three cavities...

Now I never casted hollow point using the pin in a wooden handle. What is the correct way of casting? I only casted hollow points using cramer moulds...

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Quote from Paulinski: "Now I never casted hollow point using the pin in a wooden handle. What is the correct way of casting? I only casted hollow points using cramer moulds... "

1) With the mold closed, insert the pin and turn it so that it locks into position.
2) Pour all cavities.
3) Knock sprue plate back.
4) Turn and remove the hollow point pin.
5) Open mold to drop bullets.

When inserting the pin, don't grip the mold handles too tightly or it may make pin insertion a little more difficult.

Wear long pants and boots. Everyone, at one time or another, will pour without the pin inserted. The lead is still molten when it hits floor level.

Make sure the pin is hot before pouring. I've warmed mine with just the end of the pin on electric stove burner while warming my mold. Other times, I've warmed the pin using my propane torch.

If the pin wants to stick, try sanding it smoother with fine wet/dry sandpaper. I use 400 grit followed by 500. Applying dry graphite on a paper towel helps a lot too.

[Paulinski]

Thanks for the info sir.

I will leave the pin in when I'm preheating the mould on the hot plate...

[Paulinski]

Thanks for the info sir.

I will leave the pin in when I'm preheating the mould on the hot plate...

[41 mag fan]

Do not believe everything you read. I do what works for me

So you're condescending yourself by posting what works for me is an old wives tale, when what works for you does not work for me?
Considering I used to do the paraffin and candle wax as flux and having my temp at 750*, I was getting incomplete fillout, voids from dirt, rounded lube groove bands, frosted casts, boolits out of round, out of size, and major weight variances from one boolit to another.
A look in the pot and there was a nice pretty color of tin oxidizing to the surface.

Dropping to 675* in an outside summer temp garage, and regulating my casting rythym, I done away with everything but the voids from dirt.
Switched to sawdust, and my dirt went bye bye.

Finally got my vent system set up in my air conditioned/heated shop, I now cast at 700-725* depending on melt and mold.
Even at these temps, I cast above 4 casts / minute, I'll get frosted boolits.

It's been scientifically proven that something like sawdust used as a flux will get the minute impurities out of lead, and that it will bind with undesirable impurities like calcium and other unwanted metals.
It's the carbon that sawdust becomes that makes it the best flux to use. Paraffin and wax does not burn down or reduce to a carbon.

Gear I'm glad you typed it all out. I did not want to.

Right on there tomme boy. Gear types it out much better than I.
Think when I need my thoughts explained fully I'll just pm Gear...... HELP!!! He's picking on me!!!

[fastglock]

Cast at a regular quick rhythm to keep the mould hot.

Also, as mentioned, check sprue plate tightness, it should almost swing free ~ if too tight air may not escape under it. It may help to put a slight (oh so slight) bevel at the top mating faces of the mould blocks to allow air to escape under the sprue plate... just break the edge with a diamond hone of very fine emery like 600 grit.

Also, I usually pre-heat until the sprue plate lube starts to smoke a bit. The mould will be just under the melting point of the lead then and it will take a few seconds for the sprue puddle to freeze. the mould will settle in and cool a bit as you cast but that should get you going.

NOE moulds seem to like to be run fast and hot ~ not so much lead hot but mould hot.

Longbow

Useful info for me , Thanks!

[Hamish]

Considering I used to do the paraffin and candle wax as flux and having my temp at 750*, I was getting incomplete fillout, voids from dirt, rounded lube groove bands, frosted casts, boolits out of round, out of size, and major weight variances from one boolit to another.
A look in the pot and there was a nice pretty color of tin oxidizing to the surface.

Dropping to 675* in an outside summer temp garage, and regulating my casting rythym, I done away with everything but the voids from dirt.
Switched to sawdust, and my dirt went bye bye.

Finally got my vent system set up in my air conditioned/heated shop, I now cast at 700-725* depending on melt and mold.
Even at these temps, I cast above 4 casts / minute, I'll get frosted boolits.

It's been scientifically proven that something like sawdust used as a flux will get the minute impurities out of lead, and that it will bind with undesirable impurities like calcium and other unwanted metals.
It's the carbon that sawdust becomes that makes it the best flux to use. Paraffin and wax does not burn down or reduce to a carbon.

Outstanding post, absolutely outstanding. This morning I tried casting using recycled boolits and 1X fluxed ingots and thought I would use a little candle wax as I thought my alloy was *pretty* clean.

Huh-uh, I'm beginning to think that fluxing 3, 4, or even 5 times is not too many times.

[GLL]

Wear long pants and boots. Everyone, at one time or another, will pour without the pin inserted. The lead is still molten when it hits floor level.

RC:

Who would ever pour alloy into the cavity without the pin in place ?

I learned years ago that lead melts right through the top of Nike's when I did that !

Jerry

[41 mag fan]

I've tried the candle wax, fluxed at the beginning and middle of my pot with no luck. I finally switched to sawdust. I tried the sawdust and it was ok, got the job done quite nicely, then I went to the pine pet bedding and it was excellent.
I myself, like using sawdust for smelting. I'll flux twice, use a oak dowel to stir, stir, stir. This was from smelting down my scrap range lead.
In my pots I use the pet bedding, as I like having the chunks of burnt wood and I'll stir for a good 4-5 minutes.
It works for me this way as compared to using candle wax or paraffin.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

the last NOE mold I got cast like your description. After many trials and errors, I compared
the sprue plate hole size with the other NOE's that I have that cast great. The new mold -the sprue
holes where considerably smaller. I enlarged them to the same diameter of the molds that work
and no more problems

[jethunter]

I found I had to run the pot quite a bit hotter to keep this mold at temperature. 750F and drop the bullets faster than you normally would. I was using a small fan to harden the sprue, count to 6, cut the sprue and drop the bullets. Any delay and the mold would cool down and start getting wrinkled bullets for a couple casts until it warmed up again. End up with shiny bullet tips and frosted midsections but that's the only way I could keep making good bullets.

[geargnasher]

I found I had to run the pot quite a bit hotter to keep this mold at temperature. 750F and drop the bullets faster than you normally would. I was using a small fan to harden the sprue, count to 6, cut the sprue and drop the bullets. Any delay and the mold would cool down and start getting wrinkled bullets for a couple casts until it warmed up again. End up with shiny bullet tips and frosted midsections but that's the only way I could keep making good bullets.

Run it at a TIMED four pours per minute for five minutes with 700-degree alloy and your problem will disappear. So will the shrunken midsections.

Gear

[Jailer]

I found I had to run the pot quite a bit hotter to keep this mold at temperature. 750F and drop the bullets faster than you normally would. I was using a small fan to harden the sprue, count to 6, cut the sprue and drop the bullets. Any delay and the mold would cool down and start getting wrinkled bullets for a couple casts until it warmed up again. End up with shiny bullet tips and frosted midsections but that's the only way I could keep making good bullets.

Run it at a TIMED four pours per minute for five minutes with 700-degree alloy and your problem will disappear. So will the shrunken midsections.

Gear

Plus loose the fan and leave a smaller sprue puddle, one just big enough to ensure good base fill out and nothing more. You're cooling your mold with that fan and it's counter productive to what you are trying to achieve, that being a hotter mold for better fill out.

When I'm having a bit of trouble with a mold not staying up to temp as the OP has described I leave a very small sprue puddle in each individual hole and increase the casting pace. Put's more heat in the mold blocks because less time is spent waiting for a sprue to harden enough to cut it allowing you to decrease the time between pours.

[MarkP]

I would recommend getting the NOE thermometer & probe and drilling your mold block. I have the same mold (311-247 No HP) I slowly preheat to 350 F and have my melt at 695 to 725. Good bullets after a few cycles. Like many I cast outside and temps will range from single digits where water bucket gets a thin layer of ice to 95 F when you are so sweaty you can barley see, all with minimal wind to pretty strong wind. It is very interesting to see how casting rate and ambient temp influences mold temperature. I did have an issue when applying sprue plate lube, it migrated down into cavity and caused some issues, this was on another mold. That one was pretty easy to figure out as I was getting near perfect then I lubed and surfaces were wrinkled.