Throat tighter than rest of barrel on Walther PPQ

[Char-Gar]

And for most other purposes too. Still, I don't believe it has been definitely shown yet whether Walther will take that line.

Yes, that is correct, but the OP did call Walther Customer Service and they told him they would test the firearm with jacketed ammo and if it fell within their standards, they would sent it back to him. I think there is a very good chance that is what they will do.

It would cost far less to pull the barrel and send it to DougGuy, which his probably what he will end up doing anyway.

[Inferno451]

A quick update for those following this thread-

A little more background on the situation: Purchase date on this pistol was 2/25/2015 from Budsgunshop, I took delivery of it on 3/6/2015. I am the original owner and warranty paperwork was submitted to Walther.

I've been talking with Buds and although they offer warranties on guns they sell, since Walther handles their own warranty, i have to deal with them. Buds has been great to work with and has graciously offered to pay for shipping to Walther CS. I will be calling Walther shortly to get some more information on turnaround time, ect. My wife and I are moving in a month and i'm not sure if Walther will ship to a different address than it came from. In response to some of the posts on this thread in regards to these pistols being designed around jacketed rounds, i completely agree. However, I can see no reason for a throat to be several thousandths smaller than the rifling, and though these are not target pistols, there must be some mechanical accuracy missing. How much I really couldn't say as i'm no marksman. I consider myself a decent shot and have been shooting for a long time, but without a ransom rest and some statement as to what accuracy standard these are held to I wouldn't feel comfortable saying the gun has a considerable lack of accuracy. I have slugged the barrel several more times to be sure of the restriction and i'm positive the throat is noticeably tighter than the rest of the barrel. It's true that digital calipers are not an ideal tool for this, but even just pushing the slug through the barrel from the muzzle end the restriction is noticeable. Takes a couple taps with a mallet to get the slug started, then very light tapping until it gets to the throat. At that point i have to pound on it a bit before it will pop out. From the chamber end i have to pound on the slug until it gets past the throat then it falls to the end of the barrel under it's own weight. That alone, regardless of measurement says pretty clearly that the barrel is very inconsistent in diameter.

[Errokk]

My opinion, if you like the gun, have the barrel fixed. If you dont, get rid of it.

[DougGuy]

The barrel is defective. Without a doubt. It is also dangerous in that it could cause an overly high pressure event which could possibly cause death or injury if it exploded. For them to balk at fixing it under THESE circumstances is reprehensible. Buds, who sold the gun, would ALSO be liable since they were the seller of the defective product. This is pure B.S. that Walther is not actively trying to get the gun in house so they can fix it, and absolve themselves of any liability the existing barrel might expose them to. And trust me, the risk is VERY REAL.

The effort described by the original purchaser that is required to push a lead ball through the throat is considerable. Put 36,500psi of pressure behind that constriction and you don't have to be a gunsmith OR a rocket scientist to see the potential danger this defective barrel poses to anyone who shoots it.

THIS ^^^^^^^^ IS WHAT you need to impress upon Walther! THEY need to email you a prepaid shipping label for this gun and send UPS or Fedex a call tag to come to your residence and GET IT. Maybe they got lawyers who work for nothing, cheaper than sending a shipping label.

I have no problems throating the barrel and removing the constriction. To me, my efforts are secondary to the real root cause of the problem, and those responsible for this root cause should ALSO be responsible for remedying the situation.

[gloob]

A constriction of 2 1/2 mils is hardly a bomb waiting to happen. With factory jacketed ammo, anyway. The real problem, for Walther, is if a large number of their barrels have been sent / are being sent out like this. They might not want to open the floodgate of repair work if one person gets their barrel fixed/replaced under warranty. You know there could be a lot of folks demanding new barrels, and most of them would be guys that don't shoot cast bullets nor bullseye competitions with their guns.

If they don't fix it on their dime, I am betting it's because they have a lot of guns out there with the same problem/non-problem. If this were an isolated event, I think they would bend over backwards to fix the problem. So what they do next is going to be telling.

Either way, sounds like OP has plenty of reasonable backup options.

[Handloader109]

The barrel is defective. Without a doubt. It is also dangerous in that it could cause an overly high pressure event which could possibly cause death or injury if it exploded. For them to balk at fixing it under THESE circumstances is reprehensible. Buds, who sold the gun, would ALSO be liable since they were the seller of the defective product. This is pure B.S. that Walther is not actively trying to get the gun in house so they can fix it, and absolve themselves of any liability the existing barrel might expose them to. And trust me, the risk is VERY REAL.

The effort described by the original purchaser that is required to push a lead ball through the throat is considerable. Put 36,500psi of pressure behind that constriction and you don't have to be a gunsmith OR a rocket scientist to see the potential danger this defective barrel poses to anyone who shoots it.

THIS ^^^^^^^^ IS WHAT you need to impress upon Walther! THEY need to email you a prepaid shipping label for this gun and send UPS or Fedex a call tag to come to your residence and GET IT. Maybe they got lawyers who work for nothing, cheaper than sending a shipping label.

I have no problems throating the barrel and removing the constriction. To me, my efforts are secondary to the real root cause of the problem, and those responsible for this root cause should ALSO be responsible for remedying the situation.

Kind of an unproven accusation that the barrel is defective. As op stated, calipers are not the method of choice to measure a slug. My measurements vary at least a thou if not two. Owner needs to do a case of the barrel to truly determine the shape and be able to measure the barrel accurately. My PPQ is way more accurate with any out of the box factory loads. And I've tried 4 different cast bullets alox and pcd,and none are as good as cheap white box target ammo. But they ALL hit close enough to hurt.. The PPQ isn't a target gun.. Not a Walther apologist, just fact. I'd send back to Walther if you are convinced of a defect, but I'll bet you a dollar they send it back untouched. Sell it or use factory loads or have someone alter.

[gloob]

^So does your PPQ foul up right after the chamber, too?

[gpidaho]

Guys: I'm just not coming up with the same #s here on a PPQ. SIL bought the Walther 9mm PPQ and we were very impressed with it on our first outing. Shooting Lee TL358-124s powder coated and sized .358 we had no problems and were very impressed with the trigger. When cleaning after 200rnds. fired there was a small amount of lead flakes in the bore but nothing out of hand, they patched right out. After reading these posts I became concerned and slugged the throat and breech. What I came up with using a Starrett mic. was a .3575 throat and a .356 bore. I rechecked using a dial caliper as a comparative measurement and figures were confirmed, the throat was a little over .001 larger than the bore. I don't know if this is something Walther became aware of and fixed, or we're just lucky, you think they would all be the same measurement from the factory. Anyway we're very happy with the PPQ and it's working with powder coated boolits just fine for us. GP

[Inferno451]

Want to trade barrels?

[Inferno451]

Update- I've now called Walther customer service several times over the past week and left messages and used the customer service form on their website. I can't get ahold of anyone and nobody is returning my messages.

[kenn]

Inferno,

That's really disappointing. Just out of curiosity, what does a new barrel cost? If you are looking at $100 to fix it, maybe buds will work something out and split the cost with you if they're going to each overnight shipping. I have a PPQ and thought the tolerances are REALLY tight, it is fantastically accurate and the trigger is among the best I've used (stock) in a production 9MM. Try to get it right before you give up on it. Great gun.

[Inferno451]

It's a fantastic pistol, and I absolutely love it apart from the bad barrel. The concern with a replacement barrel is that the barrel is stamped with the serial number, and i'd like to keep it that way.

[Inferno451]

Update- Finally heard back from customer service from my email. Here it is:

Hi Inferno451,

May I ask why you think that is defective? The throat is manufactured to be tighter than the rifling.


Safe Shooting,

Mary Bryant
Consumer Services Tech
Umarex USA, Inc. / Walther Arms Inc.


Whaaaaaaa?

[Char-Gar]

Update- Finally heard back from customer service from my email. Here it is:

Hi Inferno451,

May I ask why you think that is defective? The throat is manufactured to be tighter than the rifling.


Safe Shooting,

Mary Bryant
Consumer Services Tech
Umarex USA, Inc. / Walther Arms Inc.


Whaaaaaaa?

As I said before, they make them the way they make them for jacketed bullets. When the barrel is pressed into the chamber block that cause a constriction in the throat. They consider that a part of the manufacturing process and not a defect. This constriction will have zero negative effect on jacketed bullet ammo.

So;

1. Ream the throat to suit you
2. Shoot it as is
3. Sell the pistol

[Inferno451]

The PPQ is a one peice barrel, machined from a single blank. No separate chamber as on the PPX.
My barrel:





PPX barrel:

[gpidaho]

inferno451: I'm with Char-Gar, This is just some thing you're going to have to fix, save yourself a stroke and have it throated, if won't cost much as it's simple to do. I think the PPQ is a great little pistol. the trigger is as good out of the box as most are after being worked over. Sadly more and more guns these days come in kit form as they are made by machines not people. You know what's wrong here and puts you ahead of the game. Think. we could have bought one of those 51 Remingtons lol GP

[Inferno451]

Think. we could have bought one of those 51 Remingtons lol GP

Now THERE'S a scary though . Update- After discussing further with Walther CS, they have sent me out a shipping label to send just the barrel in. I'll be very descriptive in the problem, as I doubt they will go so far as to actually slug the barrel. If they don't fix or replace the barrel it will be sent to dougguy to be throated.

[DougGuy]

Well, thank you for your consideration of my skills, but may I ask who the hell drew up their barrel when SAAMI specs clearly DO NOT show a throat smaller than the rest of the barrel! This is just getting stupider and stupider on their part. Manufactured to be smaller than the rest of the rifling MY A$$.

SAAMI sets specs as a governing body that most of the sporting arms manufacturers agree upon and accept. There HAS to be a standard, and that's what SAAMI is for.

For a U.S. gun maker to manufacture a firearm or a part of a firearm like a barrel that does not meet SAAMI specs opens them to a lot of liability for accidents, injuries, and lawsuits. For an importer the risks are pretty much the same if they make stuff that there are no specs for or do not adhere to the same specs that are pretty much accepted industry wide as the law.

They got a bad run of barrels and since they cannot dazzle you with their brilliance, they are hoping to baffle you with B. S. so your problem will simply go away. They are NOT fooling this old man, been around this business for many years and never seen a smokescreen I couldn't see through if I just looked hard enough.

Here's the chamber drawing that everybody else goes by:



Ok, let's look at the flip side. If I am wrong, and I don't think I am, but if I am wrong, I will be the FIRST to admit my mistake(s) but they will have to show me the logic in how they get away with a tighter throat than the rifling, they will have to explain to me WHY they did this, and to what end they feel there engineering is superior to SAAMI specs, they will need to prove to me beyond some B.S. excuse as to what they hoped to accomplish with making a barrel like this. I don't think this is going to happen. I think they just don't want it getting out and circulating that they might have had some bad barrels and didn't want to admit it or foot the bill to make them right.

I applaud Inferno451's tenacity and efforts to get to some resolution of this.

[Inferno451]

Help me understand that drawing. I'm a senior M.E. student, but maybe i'm reading this wrong. What's up with that ".354 [8.99] B" Dimension doing in there before the .355 specified for the groove diameter? Is SAAMI spec actually a slightly tighter throat or is that dimension related to the lands in the rifling starting to taper in?

[Inferno451]

Update- I went ahead and slugged the barrel again so I could be extra descriptive with the problem and it turns out the problem is even worse than I thought. Turns out it's not the throat that's too small, it's the whole first half inch or so of the rifling. I can put a bullet that's already been pushed through the bore back through from the muzzle side (matching up the rifling marks) and it will fall down to the last half inch of rifling and then I'll have to push on it pretty hard to get it to come out. Barrel is getting boxed up and shipped to Walther shortly.