Powder Coating Hollow Point Boolits?

[davidheart]

Just curious... if I powder coat a hollow point boolit will I get expansion? Anybody have experience with this?

[davidheart]

Nevermind.... I found this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...nsion-impaired

The answer is yes, and well.

[Dragonheart]

Powder coating will allow you to shoot a softer bullet. I spray my HP bullets so no powder goes into the cavity.

[fredj338]

The PC isn't tough enough to resist expansion. If the bullet will expand w/o PC, it will expand with.

[bangerjim]

It's nice when it all comes together...........isn't it!

[Dragonheart]

The PC isn't tough enough to resist expansion. If the bullet will expand w/o PC, it will expand with.

That is true. However, ballistic test show that when a standard jacketed hollow point hits bone (a very high probability) the hollow point gets plugged up and then it has little, if any more expansion than a FMJ. For that reason I try to keep the polymer out of the cavity. But is all may be moot, since the polymer jacket allows us to shoot soft alloy at high velocity and there is a natural mushrooming effect. Maybe some wet pack testing of some PC hollow points is in order.

[davidheart]

That is true. However, ballistic test show that when a standard jacketed hollow point hits bone (a very high probability) the hollow point gets plugged up and then it has little, if any more expansion than a FMJ. For that reason I try to keep the polymer out of the cavity. But is all may be moot, since the polymer jacket allows us to shoot soft alloy at high velocity and there is a natural mushrooming effect. Maybe some wet pack testing of some PC hollow points is in order.

Actually, keeping that theory in mind I'd imagine you'd have better terminal effects with a powder coated hollow point than a jacketed hollow point.

[RP]

I was reading a article about HPs the other day and it stated most fail on defense loads do to the HP filling with the clothing of the bad guy changing it to a round nose bullet. The one I remember saying that did not have this problem was the hyroshock because of the tip in the center of the HP. But a 45 cal hole is still a 45 cal hole HP or not.

[Dragonheart]

I don't take any chances with my carry gun, so I use Federal Guard Dog ammunition. The guard Dog looks and feeds like a FMJ, but the nose is strapped in the interior and filed with a soft polymer, so it collapses on itself. I was able to acquire several hundred of the bullets when this ammunition was first introduced, so I did a lot of wet pack testing. The lightweight high velocity bullet expands regardless of what it hits and make a 9 mm look like like a 45 and a 45 ACP a really big hole!

[xacex]

As you read (and saw) I have yet to notice a negative difference in expansion of p/c bullets., with powder coat. In fact I have found it actually helps with keeping the bullet together a little. This may be due to being able to use a softer alloy, and having it basically annealed. I have a pile of expanded 9mm I need to clean the dirt off and post. I regularly get perfect expansion.

[davidheart]

I've actually shot tons of rounds into water jugs and/or soaked phone books to test terminal ballistics, penetration, and expansion. I've only had failure to expand using Speer Gold Dot 158gr 357 mag rounds. J-Words of the Hornady variety or Hydra-shock work impressively well.

I've never tried it with hollow point cast boolits, but with this information in mind I'd LOVE to do some testing! I might have to make a post in the Boolit Swap for some 357 boolits now.

[noisewaterphd]

I was reading a article about HPs the other day and it stated most fail on defense loads do to the HP filling with the clothing of the bad guy changing it to a round nose bullet. The one I remember saying that did not have this problem was the hyroshock because of the tip in the center of the HP. But a 45 cal hole is still a 45 cal hole HP or not.

Where did you find such an article?

Here is some very thorough ballistics testing of most defense ammo, in most calibers, with the ballistics gel covered in layers of denim and other fabrics: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/

Most manufacturers (starting with Speer's release of the Gold Dot) have this stuff figured out.

I've actually shot tons of rounds into water jugs and/or soaked phone books to test terminal ballistics, penetration, and expansion. I've only had failure to expand using Speer Gold Dot 158gr 357 mag rounds. J-Words of the Hornady variety or Hydra-shock work impressively well.

I've never tried it with hollow point cast boolits, but with this information in mind I'd LOVE to do some testing! I might have to make a post in the Boolit Swap for some 357 boolits now.

That is very strange. The Gold Dot is widely regarded as the most reliably expanding hollow point on the market.

A large majority of LE agencies, as well as the FBI use the Gold Dot because of this.

[noisewaterphd]

As you read (and saw) I have yet to notice a negative difference in expansion of p/c bullets., with powder coat. In fact I have found it actually helps with keeping the bullet together a little. This may be due to being able to use a softer alloy, and having it basically annealed. I have a pile of expanded 9mm I need to clean the dirt off and post. I regularly get perfect expansion.

My personal tests show that powder coating the hollow point does seem to help control the expansion, and gives more uniform results.

I tested: fully PC'ed, "nose open" PC (no coating in the hollow point), and plain 'ol lubed cast in 45ACP and 44magnum. I'd take the fully PC'ed results over the other 2 every day of the week.


Even with decent test results, if it's my *** on the line, I'm loading Gold Dots over a generous scoop of AA5.

[Greg S]

Getting ready myself to start powder coating cast hollow points. My idea was to lay out a spacing grid on a cooking sheet, drill my holes then grind 1.5" piece of althread to a 5z6 degree angle (a threaded hp pin) and double nut them to the baking sheet. Then just fill the pins with upside down boolits, bake and done. The advantages are pre-spaced, the hp doesn't have to be coated and no flash lines hopefully.

[Dragonheart]

My "Bed 0f Nails" for spraying HP's.
Attachment 164378Attachment 164379

[Spector]

Years ago I melted the lead cores out of 300 grain XTP jackets and filled them up with 5 minute epoxy to produce a 61 grain bullet that flew at over 1900 fps ands was impressively explosive on 3 liter soft drink containers. No decent accuracy beyond close range.

I have observed that Hornady puts a relatively soft polymer into their critical Defense hollow points. It's a pre-plugged hollow point in effect, but plugged with a material that should ensure expansion even into stacks of phone books.

230 grain HydroShoks open over 50% of the time in dry phone books. The old 45 ACP Black Talons simply would pucker shut 100% of the time in phone books as would most other hollow point bullets I tried.

I have really been wondering if PCed hollow point boolits carefully filled with 5 minute epoxy would perform at or near 100% expansion in phone books and other mediums that will normally defeat hollow point bullets.

Anyone care to try it. Eventually I will try it, but it may be awhile.....Mike

[davidheart]

I usually only use the phone books after they have been soaked for an hour in a bucket of water. Results are closer to actualy tissue then and your expansion rates will be dramatically different.

[RP]

Where did you find such an article?

Here is some very thorough ballistics testing of most defense ammo, in most calibers, with the ballistics gel covered in layers of denim and other fabrics: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/

Most manufacturers (starting with Speer's release of the Gold Dot) have this stuff figured out.




That is very strange. The Gold Dot is widely regarded as the most reliably expanding hollow point on the market.

A large majority of LE agencies, as well as the FBI use the Gold Dot because of this.

Hand loader issue 301 volume 51 Speer gold dot is stated to be on par with the hydro shock and they offer it in law enforcement rounds which I would guess that's why most LE agencies use it,

[sawinredneck]

Where did you find such an article?

Here is some very thorough ballistics testing of most defense ammo, in most calibers, with the ballistics gel covered in layers of denim and other fabrics: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/

Most manufacturers (starting with Speer's release of the Gold Dot) have this stuff figured out.




That is very strange. The Gold Dot is widely regarded as the most reliably expanding hollow point on the market.

A large majority of LE agencies, as well as the FBI use the Gold Dot because of this.

That article was a great find!
I remember back in the '90's Guns and Ammo did a small scale test like this, they found coats and vests with the white fiber filling tended to be the worst at plugging up hollow points, with denim coming in next. It was at that point the Glaser safety slugs became all the rage. Same reason now we are seeing the different frangible rounds hitting the market.
As for PCing lead, just another thought, the PC might actually help keep the bullet together as it travels and expands. I can't prove this, but it's something to think about if someone is going to test them.

[Dragonheart]

Very good article.

However, there is an 80% possibility the bullet will hit bone, so for those that want to see what a difference that can make on bullet expansion you can go to http://www.brassfetcher.com.