The Ignorant Wannabe is back.....Questions on boolits for my 7.62x39mm CZ 527

[IndySteve]

First, let me explain why I don't cast myself.

HOLY CRAP getting started with everything would "hard" on my SS budget! I priced "starter kits" added cost of a couple bullet molds, sizer, lube........then figuring out where to find lead> Yish. I keep remembering the HUNDREDS of lbs of lead sheeting my Dad (roofer) had stacked up in the family junk shed and wondering if my brother glamed onto that or what. Dad's passing was not an amicable time among siblings....aka, I didnt get squat. LOL

Anyway, TMI.

Bought a CZ 527 American "Rustic" (cheap as heck right now till gone). FUN rifle but J bullets are limited to say the least. Going to TRY some .308 bullets but the bore slugs .3114-.3115. I have a feeling it will be a fruitless attempt.

Finding .312-.313 cast bullets of any weight is a waste of time......except for one. Missouri bullets makes a 167 grain .3115 HARD cast. 20 Brinell. Thinking of ordering a box of 250 but......I'm here asking for HELP!! (again)

20 Brinell? How dang fast that have to be going to EXPAND on deer? Not like this is a 358 or 458 caliber. Also thought of picking up .310 cast on proper weight and coating them to give me more diameter. Ranges to 150 yards 165 grains seems to be stuck in my head but experienced opinions on that are also welcome.

For those that may not realize it and offered as SOMETHING I can bring to the forum's table, reforming 6.5 Grendel ( Lapua) brass to 7.62x39mm gives one the strength of the small primer base and it's also has approx 9-10 percent more capacity than the Lapua 7.62x39mm brass (which I'm being told is unusually LOW capacity wise). Shooting Speer Gold Dot 123 (actually MEASURES .311 not .310 as advertised) one can bump up velocity....."considerably" without any kind of pressure signs.

Also note that ALL CZ 527 rifles have a SMALL firing pin so, nothing needs to be changed on the rifle.

SOME may not feel the SRP brass has the ability to take higher pressure. Too each their own and I feel each should do what they feel is appropriate so I'd prefer to NOT debate that subject.
I'll only pass along that within my own loadings over the decades the difference is quite dramatic......IF one wants to push the envelope a bit.

Back on topic. .3114 ish bore. .3115 hard cast 167 grain. 9.5 twist............is that going to shoot worth a dang and will a 20 Brinell boolit expand AT ALL starting out 2000 fps (ish)?

Sorry for being wordy.........."pain meds" (let's not go there, lol) make me a bit gabby.
God Bless for any help or opinions.
Steve

[flint45]

Check Everglades ammo they are good to deal with and have good sales on bullets I get my .431 jacket 44's from them for my Marlin.

[Burnt Fingers]

I doubt you'll get expansion from a 20 BHN boolit at those velocities.

Lee Precision Melter $43
Lyman Ladle $25
Lee DC mold $21.60
Powder coat from Smoke $23.50
Lee Bullet size kit $20.80
Shipping for hardware $10

Total $143.90

That gets you started. Add another $~25 per mold.

[IndySteve]

Thanks.
Appreciate the opinions.

Have a great year all.
God Bless

[Larry Gibson]

IndySteve

If you still don't want to cast your own then I suggest forgetting commercial cast as they will be to hard for hunting. I suggest you go with jacketed bullets. Yes that's a sacrilege on this forum but if you're going to hunt with that cartridge and not cast an appropriate bullet for hunting then a bit of respect for the game is in order, just my humble opinion.

I have a Mini Mark X in 7.62 that shoots the Speer 150 gr .311 SP bullet and the Hornady 150 gr .312 SP bullet quite well. You can attain 2100+ fps easily and safely in your bolt gun with either. They are effective to 200 yards at that velocity range. Preferably though you might also try the Speer 130 gr .308 FP and the Speer or Hornady 150 gr FP also .308. My Mini MK X shoots .308s very well and the 30-30 bullets at right at home in the velocity range of the 7.62x39.

[odfairfaxsub]

Jmax here does it all the time

[dverna]

I doubt you'll get expansion from a 20 BHN boolit at those velocities.

Lee Precision Melter $43
Lyman Ladle $25
Lee DC mold $21.60
Powder coat from Smoke $23.50
Lee Bullet size kit $20.80
Shipping for hardware $10

Total $143.90

That gets you started. Add another $~25 per mold.

That will buy 400-500 excellent jacketed bullets that will outshoot any cast bullet and do it with minimal load development. Plus you forgot the cost of alloy.

A person on a limited income who only shoots to put game on the table is better off buying jacketed bullets.

[megasupermagnum]

Are you looking for a target bullet or hunting bullet? If just a hunting bullet, why not something like the Hornady 150 grain SP? There are quite a few .312" rifle bullet options.

[Burnt Fingers]

That will buy 400-500 excellent jacketed bullets that will outshoot any cast bullet and do it with minimal load development. Plus you forgot the cost of alloy.

A person on a limited income who only shoots to put game on the table is better off buying jacketed bullets.

Speer Gold Dots for the 7.62x39 run $0.30 each plus shipping. What it costs for a minimum casting setup would buy a lifetime supply of hunting bullets.

However if one enjoys going to the range that same amount of bullets might not last a year.

[mdi]

FWIW; getting started casting is only as expensive as you want it to be. I started on a Coleman single burner propane stove (From a second hand store, $10.00?), a stainless steel sauce pan ($$? from a thrift shop), a Lee mold (today's price under $30.00), a ladle (less than $15.00). a slotted spoon (use an old one from kitchen or one from the dollar store, $1.00), and some sawdust, paint sticks for stirring, and some "range lead". I used this set up for well over a year and dip lubed w/alox a lot of 44 cal. bullets that kept me shooting. Next purchase for me was a Lee bottom pour pot, a Lee Pro 4-20 that I still use today, maybe $40.00 in the mid '80s today less than $70.00. I had access to wheel weights and today I purchase lead from The Captain, vendor sponsor here, mostly range lead which is as good as most for all my bullet casting. Today I cast bullets because I wanna, not to "save" money...

If you want to get started casting fairly cheaply, you can, and if you want to spend $500.00 to start, you can...

[yeahbub]

Doesn't Remington 7.62x39 brass have small primers? . . . Coulda sworn they do. Seems the long way around the barn to convert Grendel brass, but, hey. . . .

20 Brinell? How dang fast that have to be going to EXPAND on deer?

Not happening. A 20 BHN alloy is ordinarily antimony rich to the point that they'll break up if they're moving fast enough to deform. If you want expansion with a cast hunting boolit that won't break off chunks in what will become your food, it's best to keep antimony content below 3%. These alloys also are usable in the velocities this cartridge will produce without leading (with a good lube), but my approach would be either paper patching or powder coating. I wouldn't be afraid to use paper patched boolits as soft as 8 BHN with full power in a 30 cal., and probably PC boolits as well, but I've only used PC in .44 and .357 so far - with very clean results, BTW. For proof-of-concept experimentation, it might be good to obtain some sample lots from someone here on the forum and try them out. If your barrel is .3115, you'll want boolit diameter to match the chamber's throat, which is typically a .002-.003" "funnel" into the rifling, so you'll be okay with a .312-.313 boolit. One of my favorites for this cartridge is the Lyman 311466, a 150gr Loverin design which paper patches or powder coats well, and allows somewhat more velocity than the usual heavier designs. It's easy to flat-point for hunting, too. There are many molds that people use successfully. Ask around and see what results you get.

There's another alternative loading for hunting deer with the x39. It is to use a 150gr jacketed bullet intended for the .30-30. the jackets are thin and the cores are soft. Even though they're .308 dia., with a full-power load, they'll obturate to full groove diameter and have produced near-MOA accuracy and expansion - from an SKS, no less. The bullets used were Winchester and Remington 150gr bulk bullets, backed by (IIRC) 26gr of AA 2015, which is a book load. Because you have a bolt-action and needn't be concerned about gas port pressures, slower propellants might also work well.

[IndySteve]

Interesting. I would never have guessed a j bullet would obturate much at all in a barrel. Worth a shot!
Excellent Thanks
God Bless

[mdi]

Normally one (me) wouldn't think a jacketed bullet would obturate, but a copper and lead bullet with up to 50K PSI smacking it's bottom will more than likely distort some way...

[Tazlaw]

I doubt you'll get expansion from a 20 BHN boolit at those velocities.

Lee Precision Melter $43
Lyman Ladle $25
Lee DC mold $21.60
Powder coat from Smoke $23.50
Lee Bullet size kit $20.80
Shipping for hardware $10

Total $143.90

That gets you started. Add another $~25 per mold.

For the price of a melter and ladle, couldn’t you get a bottom pour for about same money?

[Mk42gunner]

Another idea is to look for some softish cast bullets 115-120 grain meant for the .32-20 sized to .312".

I don't deer hunt with my Mini Mauser, but I do shoot quite a few nominal .32 handgun boolits at more or less rimfire speed from it.

Robert