M1 Garand in .308 WIN - just purchased ! LOADS ?

[Pirate69]

Thanks for the thread DoctorBill I've learned a thing or two that I could have known before, just not able to recall at the time I've got a new M-1 also chambered in 308win. haven't put a round through it yet. but I will soon please keep us updated on your range reports

I, for one, learn something new every time I visit this site.

[Pirate69]

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Couldn't wait...

Picture of rifling - camera on Manual Focus. Click the images.

Attachment 326466

Best I could do right now. Poor Depth of Focus. Need smaller aperture.

Oh well. Nice Barrel - clean. Now if only the Safety would work.....

Here it is in my homemade cleaning Stand on top of a Plastic Barrel.

Attachment 326467

Wiped the chaos of my work room....disgusting !

DoctorBill

Looks like you got an "early" (single slot) gas cylinder plug to go with your early receiver.

[DoctorBill]

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Yes Pirate69....I will have to load 150 gr with moderate charges of powder.

I am a rather Half-arsed "machinist" (ha !), so I am wondering if I could make
my own adjustable gas Plug as is sold by two different manufacturers, and
save myself $50 plus shipping.

If I had the Specs for them, I think I could make one for myself. I have a Mini-Mill
and a 9 inch Hobby Lathe from ENCO. I am just not exactly sure how those
adjustable Plugs work. One has various sized threaded Ports, if I understood it
correctly. Changes Gas Volume (PV=nRT), thus the pressure on the Gas Tube
'what·cha·ma·call·it' Piston Rod. I have to try to remember the Jargon for M1's.....

DoctorBill

my cluttered "shop".....no matter how much room
one has, it is never enough (excuses).

[DoctorBill]

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Just Googled the Schuster "Adjustable" Gas Plug ($50).
"Out of Stock" click picture.....



The Brownell Fulton Armory Gas Plug ($18). "In stock"
Looks like CHINESE made - needs deburring !



The Gunsamerica (McCann System ?) Gas Plug
https://www.garandgear.com/the-m1-ga...al-ammunition/


https://www.garandgear.com/product/ported-gas-plug/

Does anyone have any experience with these devices ?

DoctorBill

[rgsumpter]

Here is a link to a video on a couple of plugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqpqMS3tBFA

also i think the $18 plug from Brownell's is a solid one.

[DoctorBill]

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So....with "Hot" commercial ammo, the gas pressure exceeds Mil Spec for the
Standard Issue M1 Garand......either 30-06 or .308 (7.52x51mm NATO) - yes ?

To get around this, there are Gas Tube Plugs sold that either increase the inner volume
in the Gas Tube - Thus lowering the pressure placed on the Gas Piston "OpRod"

or

Vent excess pressure OUT during cycling, thus achieving the same effect.

Is this correct ?

If this is so, which system is easier to use for

1. Non-Reloaders who purchase Ammo

2. Reloaders who want to shoot higher Mass Bullets > 150 grain.

3. Old Elmer Fudd Reloaders who want to shoot reduced loads, but
still have the Action work and cycle the Bolt.....(increased pressure).

DoctorBill............

[country gent]

Most vent pressure off. Not hard to make one up.

I made them for my m1a/m14s. Basically the same set up.

Set up the plug in your lathe. center drill and then drill a .157 hole thru the plug on center line.

Tap this hole 10-32 half way down or so not clear thru.

Now put a piece of round stock in the chuck and face it square tap a 10-32 hole in it blind leave in chuck as its centered. This is the fixture to drill your 10-32 set screws or inserts.

Drill every .010 or so from .030-.090. With the inserts you can adjust the force of function, ejection, and if you have access to 300 yds or farther harmonics to an extent. They are easy to change out with a allen wrench. Make a piece of flat stock with tapped holes to hold the inserts and stamp with hole size.

My one M1a has a .050 insert the other has .065 this is where they each performed best at 600 yds. You may see slight changes in accuracy when changing inserts. Both my M1As drop brass just in front of my right elbow but still on my mat.

While sporting hunting ammo with slower powders may not be over pressure it is over port pressure.

I would buy a second plug to modify.

These plugs are tough material a good starting and bottoming tap good high pressure cutting fluid ( anchor lube is very good) and patience is needed.

When you install the insert run it in and just snug into the bottom of the threads. I used allen set screws for the inserts. I believe they were 3/8" long

[DoctorBill]

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country gent.....
In leu of buying one, can you tell me what is the plug Diameter,
length and thread pitch ? I would make the entire dooodad out
of plain old steel (maybe from a 'scrap' Bolt of sufficient diameter).

I could measure MY M1's Gas Plug, but I don't want to remove it
right now....having not shot it yet.

Wife (69) and myself (81) have both had 4+ months of what the
Doctors call "Long CoVid". I want to go shoot, but my bones
are achy today. I hope the Chinese slugs who designed this virus
are suffering Extra Long CoVid ! or are in 地狱 !

FYI - We both took LEVOFLOXACIN to cure a very persistent COUGH
that came after Long Covid. It WORKED !

This is the Rifle Range where I shoot. click image.

https://svrpc.com/

DoctorBill

[country gent]

When my son comes over Ill have him bring mine out to measure but mine the cross socket not bar. but should be the same dimensions and thread. Making from scratch should be a fun little project. The plus to making it complete will be softer steel to machine and tap. The other is you wont have to reach into the slot to drill.Check your plug to make sure it isnt stainless.

[SSGOldfart]

Hey DoctorBill you might want to read "The Load" 13gr. RedDot by Ed.Harris on this site someplace.or Hensley & Gibbs site maybe someone will give you a link.or just google The Load EdHarris" You said you needed an old man load for paper targets So try 10 to 12 gr of unique with your 150 gr boolits nice easy load on the shoulder too. 10 grains is what many considered a universal load for most 30 caliber size cases. it's pretty lite shouldn't need to worry about the gas plug either.

[Delkal]

Do not modify your gas plug. It is probably original WWII and it goes for a premium. The adjustable gas plugs are a gimmick and not needed.

And stop worrying about ammo. These are not fragile rifles. Just don't buy the highest velocity premium ammo and just stick with the cheap Winchester white box or other low end ammo with a 147 FMJ.

Then go out and shoot your rifle mand have some fun.

[DoctorBill]

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Lord God ! I would NEVER mess with the plug that comes WITH the rifle !
THAT would be a form of Heresy or Blasphemy ! Wow ! Foolish.....
like Sheet Metal Screwing a "Hilary Clinton for President" sign onto the door of a Duesenberg !



I will attempt to MAKE a plug out of Bolt Metal....an old Machinist I learned
from told me that. Bolts are good metal and usually symmetrical Steel Cylinders.
And usually are found in steel scrap yards CHEAP.

Also, as to the Ed Harris thing - YES ! I had thought about that use of Unique
or 2400 in small loads - actually tried it maybe 15 years ago. I have a downloaded
file of his article. Very famous. I was always a bit hesitant - it seemed so odd.

Felt bad today, so I didn't shoot at the range. Hoping tomorrow I'll be more up
to it. Being OLD sucks ! Especially with so many viruses lurking around every store
shelf inside some meatbrain sneezing and coughing in your airspace. Masks do nothing.

DoctorBill

[SSGOldfart]

Hope you get too feeling well tomorrow, it's been raining here every day this month over 14" in the last four days lots of flooding going on in East Texas I guess I'm going to have to shoot in the rain lol or get the boat out just to get to the range

[rgsumpter]

As you mentioned you planned to reload for Your Garand and you purchased a lot of 147gr bullets I would not worry about a vented gas plug, especially as I recall that you do not plan to load hot loads.

Here is a link to Gordons Reloading tool that was given to me by another member here. https://www.grtools.de/doku.php It has a nice burn rate chart showing relative burn rates of different powders, not just a list. Also after I played with it for awhile I found you can set it up to display the pressure at both the chamber and later at any place along the barrel. Here is a load I was looking at for the 30-06 w/IMR4064. As you can see you can move your curser along the graph and it will give you the information at that point.



Also here is a link to someone testing different ammo in a 30-06 M1, both commercial and military as well as a link to his spreadsheet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSdswZHJUc
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oYP...OP3/view?pli=1

So I would think that as long as you don't load heavy bullets with a real slow powder and you don't load hot loads you should be fine. I would think that the only issue you would have with the reloader7 you mentioned is that it might be on the fast side and not have enough pressure at the gas port and would not cycle the action.

The issue I am having is deciding what powder to use. In normal times I would just use something like IMR4064 or something along those lines that I am familiar with. I do have plenty of CCI primers and purchased 1000 147gr bullets from the above source. I did pick up some Vihtavuori N140 and will give that a try. The issue I am having is the same as everyone else, I do not what to purchase a 1lb can mail order and do not want to order a larger can until I have tried it.

[charlie b]

Following the thread since I've been playing with the idea of making a new plug for my Garand as well.

Long Covid. Hang in there. Wife got it last Jan. She is still dealing with joint issues from it, but it is getting better. This was only a year after she got shingles and lost the hearing in one ear (shingles killed the auditory nerves on one side). Getting old sucks

[DoctorBill]

"Long Covid. Hang in there." Yes ! It took LEVOFLOXACIN (Doctor's Rx) to stop
an intractable bronchial cough that came with our Long CoVid....amoxicillin didn't work.

Thanks guys for all the assistance in this Thread ! I am going to the Range today and
try out my 38 gr of Reloader 15 loads. Hope it cycles the action or I have 23 other
ones to pull and add powder to. We'll see...............

Also, thanks Delkal ! Watching YouTube videos makes one believe that M1 Garands
are woosie rifles that break easily. I just hope that you are right.

DoctorBill

[Delkal]

There are millions of Garands in use for over 80 years and they shot countless billions of rounds of ammo without a problem. While there are reports of hot loads with a heavy bullet bending the op-rod I suspect most of these were from competition shooters trying to get an advantage on the 600 yard stage. They would be the ones to notice a slight bend after a match and that is why it is so publicized. I do not think you will find a commercial "cheap" load using a 147 FMJ that will cause a problem.

Later in WWII and Korea they developed a grenade launcher that would fit over the muzzle and used a cartridge with just a powder charge. They had extremely violent recoil and it was later recommended to hold the rifle at an angle and put the butt on the ground to shoot it. The recoil could be so violent that in rare cases it cracked the back of the receiver. But no one back then ever mentioned bent op rods so that should tell you something. And don't worry about the receiver cracking. This only happened with the grenade launcher and depending on the forge code on the receiver any suspect receivers were heel dipped in molten lead to anneal them during rebuild.

[charlie b]

Just an FYI. The M1 ball ammo was 174gn at ~2600fps. M2 ball was 150gn at 2740fps. If you stay at or below those levels then I would not worry.

[DoctorBill]

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I shot the old girl ! Boy ?
Fired one shot at arms length into a 50 ft distant Berm to see if the action would
cycle. It cycled fine and tossed the case about 10 ft FORWARD of me. Expected to
the side...... Can one make it eject to the side w/o doing unnatural acts ?

That 38 gr of Reloader 15 kicks substantially with the 150 gr FMJ.

Then I set up a 15 inch Cardboard Pizza Round at 50 yards, sat down and took aim.
The rear aperture of my M1 sight could be a bit larger diameter for my old eyes.

Shot a clip of eight and came home. Six hit the target - pretty darns good for
first time out of the Box. Took Cell Phone pictures. Came home and fell asleep.

click the images

Many of the Local Police and County Mounties practice at this range which has been
there a long time - when it was very unpopulated.
Civilization is moving into the area.....and complaining. Sounds like a war zone.

See next Post for More....having trouble uploading pics. Internet has been DOWN
due to Solar Storm !

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Here is our Shooting Range. Been sued a lot to kill it. NOISE.
People buy near it - THEN complain and sue like at Airports.









I fired one 8 round clip. 1 rnd to try the action, 7 rnds at Target.
Shot high. Didn't want to mess with sight adjustment. Do better next time !



DoctorBill