Marlin lever owners please help

[geoff rodger]

Hi guys, I have A marlin cowboy in 357 which I shoot lee 158156 cowboy casts in at only about 1100fps using 4gr of titegroup. 3/4 groups at 50yards and cheaper to shoot than a .22 .
Because of this it is fast becoming my favourite rabbit varmint fun gun. But I feel I have to have a hollow point . so I going to send new Lyman mold to ERIK at hollow point mold service to hp for me . but I cant decide between a Lyman 358566 cowboy mold or A Lyman 358156 one to hollow point. Has anyone shot or had one of these hp . Which one do you think will be more accurate in the marlin at around 1100fps.
Can I even expect A large hp to open up at round 1100fps
Thanks in advance for any info.

[dubber123]

This is a HP Lyman at just 850 fps. from a 1-7/8" snubnose S&W. The alloy is 50/50 Wheelweights to pure lead, (by volume). This is a plain base boolit, I'm guessing you might need a gas check at much higher speeds. These lead at 900+ from the same gun. A slower powder in the long Marlin barrel might help in this respect though.

[geoff rodger]

great photo. I,m casting mine out of Lyman L2 but I have a cupboard full of pure lead and wheel weight in my basement. I,ll melt some down tomorrow for a softer mix to see how I go.
thanks for the reply.

[GrizzLeeBear]

What do you want the HP for? A 158 gr. SWC at 1100 fps should be instant death for any small game. A HP might prove to have to much meat destruction and they take much longer to cast. Just try the softer alloy. Not saying HP aren't usefull, but I think they are overkill on small critters you want to eat. Varmints, of course, are another story.

[qajaq59]

I'd try the 50/50 and see how it mushrooms before buying another mold. A Lyman 311041 mushrooms to .570, and retains it's weight in my 30-30.

[PA Shootist]

I have considered the same; my Marlin 1894 has also become a favorite walk-about and small game gun. Only problem with my cast 358429 in .38 Special case, which has proven to be instant lights out for groundhogs and bunnies, is over-penetration, and ricochet. That boolit barely slows down through the critter, even though the flat meplat, cutting edge of driving band, and weight still give great performance on game. I suspect it would be great on our not-too-large whitetails, but haven't yet used it. An expanding hollow-pouint which performs like the pictured above might be way better in that regard, as well as enhanced killing. But the one-at-a-time hollow point process versus my 4-cavity mold is a big deal. I have only one hollow-point Lyman single-cavity mold, and I haven't used it in many, many years, just too tediously slow, and it takes too long to get good fillout around the HP.

[AnthonyB]

I have several 358156 Hp's and think it is probably the most versatile boolit available for the 35 caliber. I prefer the 358429HP for most applications, but the 358156 is more generally useful. I'd go with it, and have Erik make it a cramer style HP if you worry about casting speed. Most of my HPs are converted two cavities, and there isn't much difference in my casting speed. Tony

[truckmsl]

Maybe try 3.5 grains for less penetration before going to a hollow point. That would be an even quieter load but likely still accurate at the distance you need. I've used this load in my marlin behind 148 grain wadcutters, which feed well in .38 or .357 if loaded a bit outside of the case mouth. No ear protection required and dead on accurate at 50 yards. Should work just as well with the cowboy boolit.

[brian]

Lyman makes a "devastator" 125 gr. HP mould already. cast it soft and it should open up. with the lighter weight, should penetrate less, thus reducing ominous richocetts. or try driving a 148 gr. swaged HBWC backwards with 2 to 3 gr. of a pistol powder. long range stability will be a problem, but for short range should be good.
have fun
Brian

[Leftoverdj]

We're talking rabbits here, maybe 3 pounds. I would not expect anything except maybe reversed HBWC to expand at c. 1000 fps on that little resistance.

I use standard .38 Special wadcutter loads for this sort of stuff. Don't expect to shoot much over 50 yards, and they work great within that range. Ricochets are always a possibility, but a low probability, and the danger zone has to be rather short after the bullet has shed at least some velocity on impact and been deformed and destabilized in the process.

[35remington]

"Only problem with my cast 358429 in .38 Special case, which has proven to be instant lights out for groundhogs and bunnies, is over-penetration, and ricochet."

If you're actually expecting a hollow point of around 158 grains in weight travelling at 1000+ fps to not overpenetrate on small game or ricochet as opposed to a standard SWC, well, you're being a bit optimistic.

As mentioned, we're talking about 2 to maybe 10-11 pound critters when speaking of rabbits to groundhogs. Hollowpoints will overpenetrate most certainly as well, and no cast hollowpoint of this size, cast in whatever alloy you want, would be retained in the body of a critter that small. Given the relatively light resistance, even hollowpoints don't expand that much at these low speeds on a skinny little cottontail.

A standard cast bullet of fairly wide meplat will do certain damage on small game and will kill quickly. As far as ricochet goes, if the shot is likely to ricochet, don't shoot. A hollowpoint of this size and low velocity, while slightly lowering the danger of a ricochet since the bullet is more likely to be deformed on impact, is no guarantee it won't ricochet. Most cast hollowpoints may, not will, shed or deform some part of the nose upon impact with a reasonably hard surface, usually leaving most of the bullet intact, with ricochets still a likely occurrence, especially at these mild velocities.

The .22 long rifle hollowpoints still readily ricochet upon striking the earth, despite going a bit faster, being much lighter in weight and more fragile, and being comprised of a softer alloy than most cast hollowpoints, especially .358 cast hollowpoints that weight 4X as much as a long rifle bullet. It's the relatively low velocity these .358" bullets are travelling and the relatively rugged construction of these bullets that keeps them mostly intact despite the fact that they have hollow points.

A hollowpoint will lessen the danger zone IF it deforms upon striking the ground, but oftentimes the hollowpoint will plug and act like a solid upon striking the earth, and zipping away fully intact is quite probable, too.

I would certainly have no quarrel with a guy who chooses a hollowpoint wanting to reduce ricochet likelihood, but he should not count on it occurring, nor should he take a shot likely to ricochet in the hopes the hollowpoint will break up. Due to the low velocity, that ain't gonna happen, and often most of the time.

[PA Shootist]

I understood from the beginning the point, small furry target, large heavy bullet at modest velocity, will go right on through. The point is that the penetration and remaining energy is very noticeable, and truly formidable. I just wanted to bring that idea to the forefront. If a hollowpoint would help, well OK, but as said one can't expect night and day difference just because of a hollowpoint. As much as I like my Marlin as a trail gun, I keep the scenario in mind and select targets and the backstop and/or beyonds very carefully. My personal experiences of 40 plus years of hunting and shooting puts the .22 HP in a completely different category than the 150-170 grain lead boolit of the .38 Spl./ .357 Magnum, as far as excess penetration and remaining lethality.

I'll stick to my point about the slow and arduous process of casting hollowpoint boolits, with perhaps little benefit in this case. Unless one just has lots of time on one's hands, and I typically never have quite enough for all my hobbies and pursuits, I can't bring myself to cast the hollowpoints. To each his own...

I also went through some experimentation with reliable every-time, all-the-time, feeding of a cast bullet with my rifle, and came to the 358429 in .38 Special cases through that process. I never had much luck with full wadcutters.

I also enjoy the old-time idea of complete interchangeability of the same ammo in rifle and revolvers, and my choice of boolit and load has served me admirably in that respect. Your mileage may vary!

[StarMetal]

You have yourself fooled into thinking you're loading those cheaper then a box of 22's. Just the cost of the primer and powder alone exceed what you can buy a box of 22 hollowpoints for. That's not counting your alloy cost, time, lube, and electricity to make those cast bullets.

35remingting is quite correct. Better served with a 22 rimfire. For that fact a quality break action pellet rifle would do.

Joe

[crabo]

I'd try the Lee 125 rnfp. If you need to try some, I'll send you some.

[woody1]

You have yourself fooled into thinking you're loading those cheaper then a box of 22's. Just the cost of the primer and powder alone exceed what you can buy a box of 22 hollowpoints for. That's not counting your alloy cost, time, lube, and electricity to make those cast bullets.

35remingting is quite correct. Better served with a 22 rimfire. For that fact a quality break action pellet rifle would do.

Joe

Not to beat a dead horse here, Joe, but you might be surprised if you run the numbers. Let's pick what we know would be a cheap load:
Alliant Promo powder and you pick the primer; 158 gr. SWC PB - primers at $30 and Alliant Promo powder at $90 per 8#. At 5 gr. Promo the cost of Powder and primer is $0.038. My spreadsheet tells me that if I'm lucky enough that my boolits cost me $0.50 per pound, it costs me just under $0.05 a shot or about $2.50 a box of 50. Boolits at $1 per lb. raise the cost per box to about $3. Winchester Power Point HP's are about $3.35 per box bought by the brick. YNMV Regards, Woody

[geoff rodger]

Kind of you to offer Crabo to post some casts to try , But I live in New Zealand. I just brought A Lyman mold cowboy 358566. to be hp. will let you know how I get on . I will even post A few pics of my first casts. The reson I say I can load it cheaper than A rimfire is that A 1lb powder is 7410grain and my loads is only 4grains . thats a hell of lot of shooting out of A 1lb . then there is just my primers. case last for ever. I have so much lead I,ll never use it.

[armyrat1970]

I have a Marlin Model 1894 in 357. From all that I have read it shoots better with heavier boolits. I have tried 125gr. and 158gr. jacketed and the 158 does seem to be a little more accurate. Just starting to cast and load with the Lee 358-158-RF mold and haven't actually fired any yet but I feel they will function and fire with good results. Hope so anyway. I have a couple hundred cast and just need to find the time to load and shoot them. Other projects with 8mm and 45 are getting in the way right now.

[35remington]

Primer 3 cents a shot, powder about a penny, restoration cost on the brass, at least one cent a shot amortized over time, let's say a half cent for the bullet considering cost of the pot, electricity and what not amortized over time, which is plenty generous on the low side.

Yep, I'd agree five cents a shot is reasonably reasonable. I'd put it at five point five or six cents as more accurate. Let's say I agree with three dollars a box as more representative for centerfire reloading on the cheap.

Problem is, comparing your "budget" cast bullet ammo to high dollar long rifles won't wash. Federal 510 or Winchester Wildcat ("budget" long rifles are best to compare to) is considerably less than that, not to mention the "bulk pack" long rifles.

You can fool yourself that you're reloading cheaper than a long rifle, but you're really not, apples to apples.

Truth.

[Leadforbrains]

This has got my attention because of the apparent versatility of the .357 cartridge in a carbine.
I'm thinkin I am needin a new Marlin.

I have a model 39 for hunting small game, but I'm thinkin' one rifle to do it all down in the southeastern swamps. That is if I am limited to only one rifle.

[qajaq59]

I have a model 39 for hunting small game, but I,m thinkin' one rifle to do it all down in the southeastern swamps.

If your swamps in SC are anything like the ones here in southern Florida, I don't think that a ricochet is going to be much of a worry.