.223 based wildcat?

[DrNick]

7mm Horton

[bearcove]

I want to bump my 300 win mag to 358 dia- 35 cal. Has that been done?

That's a 358 norma mag.

[Rockydog]

I've been playing with a 6mm TCU Contender Carbine for over a year. It's very accurate and shoots bullets about 10 grains heavier than a .223 at .223 velocities due to reduced pressures in the larger bore. If I had it to do over though I'd choose a 6X45 (AKA 6mm- .223.) The TCU case has less taper and has a tendency to stick in reloading dies. It's also very easy to set the shoulder too far back and end up with headspace issues while fireforming the TCU. The shoulder issues are not a problem with the 6X45 as they do not change from the .223 shoulder. The TCU is wickedly accurate though with PD kills to .300 yds. This was with J bullets. I just started loading some 6mm loverin cast bullets last week and hope to get to the range over the weekend. Started with 7 gr. Trail Boss and loaded a half dozen in various weights up to 10 gr. We'll see how it goes. RD

[dk17hmr]

6x47 and 6.5x47 wildcats have been used by highpower shooters in the past. The 300 Whisper/Fireball is 223 necked up to 30 cal. They are out there if you need to have an excuse to have one.

I want to say the x47's are on the 222 magnum case.

I have a 6x45 which is a 6mm/223. I actually made my first 100 rounds of brass tonight with a 243 expander button in my 223 dies. Trimmed the brass enough to square up the case mouth and it looks like it will be good to go.

The 300 whisper/fireball was made from 221 fireball but lots of guys use 223/556 and trim it down....which is my plan when I get one built.

20 Tactical, 19 Calhoon, 223 AI, 6x45 AI all come to mind.

6x45 has lots of good buzz as a varmint and medium game round, thats is why I added it to my AR collection.

[Mohillbilly]

I considered the re barreling a Ruger mini 14 to 9mm and cutting the neck off the .223 for a rather long "Super 9" of some sort.

[stubshaft]

Rocky - You've got it backwards. When you neck-up to a larger caliber you make the neck longer... it goes down the shoulder farther.

Rocky got it right. If you neck up a case you shorten it. The material will also get thinner. When you neck it down you thicken the neck and lengthen the brass.

Think of it as a ballon. As you blow it up it shortens and as it deflates it lengthens.

[lmcollins]

We were not talking about the length of the case as a whole - we were talking about the length of the neck as a singular item. Read Rocky again.

[hhranch]

I got this bug back in the early 90's and had a 25-222 Magnum (.25x47) built up on a Sako action with the intention of using it as a light deer rifle for our antlerless season here in Kansas. I used the lightest barrel Shilen made, and the shortest twist (1"x10"), but unfortunately specified that the throat be long enough to accommodate a 100 gr Nosler partition bullet seated to the base of the neck. I say unfortunately, because the resulting round was too long to work through the magazine, and shorter loaded rounds suffered in the accuracy department.

Eventually I had the rifle rebarreled to .25x.222 which was a much better fit in the small Sako action, and used it successfully with 80 and 90 grain Barnes X bullets to take several deer. My best load used H-335 and the Nosler 85gr BT, which grouped well at 100 yards, at about 2,700 fps, and really hit a coyote hard out to about 200 yards.

I did some work with 65 gr Lyman cast boolits to try to work up a squirrel load, and got them to shoot very well at 25 to 50 yards, but never was successful in getting them to shoot to a usable point of aim with the jacketed variety. Neverthesless, the cast boolits showed great promise, and hopefully one of these days I will have a chance to get back to this interesting project.

I will be glad to exchange further details with anyone that is interested.

[tommygirlMT]

I necked mine all the way up to 8mm size --- I cut the cases off right at the shoulder joint and then use a custom order neck size die I had Lee make me to put in the neck and slight shoulder.

I'm building and AR to accept the cartridge. Been test shooting them out of an old 8mm Mauser with a chamber insert to accept the smaller cartridge for testing purposes.



Yah --- yah --- yah --- I know the photo shows a condum bullet instead of a real boolit but that was my initial "test of concept" dummy round and the only picture I have taken of it so far.

[bruce drake]

Doug,

Who made your 6x45 upper?

I'm getting ready to rebarrel one of my ARs into that caliber but I'm running into a shortage of barrels with a couple of companies I've contacted.

Tommygirl - You are right that you've got a minimal shoulder! What are the FPS are you getting with that condom bullet?!?!

Bruce

Bruce

[JSH]

"The TCU case has less taper and has a tendency to stick in reloading dies. It's also very easy to set the shoulder too far back and end up with headspace issues while fireforming the TCU. The shoulder issues are not a problem with the 6X45 as they do not change from the .223 shoulder."

I have been shooting a 6TCU or a 6-223 or both for 20 years and never had an issue as described above. That is like saying a 16" tire is better than a 15" because I had a flat tire once on a 15".
The only real difference in performance is case life. Though I will say that should really never be an issue with either, but the TCU's straight walled body lends it to be a bit better. I have split a neck or two but never enough to mention.
When fooling with a wildcat one has to remember it is not a standard case. Every time a barrel is chambered you are at the mercy of the reamer mfg and the smith. It is a custom fitting of brass on every gun, short of having your own reamer and using it each time.
If brass is sticking in a die, you either have a die issue or don't have it set properly, for that specific gun.
As to using up "free" brass. When "moving" much brass in a wildcat. Free cases can be used for intial die set up, but virgin cases or once fired, are a persons best bet for less headaches.
I have ran the 6,6.5,7 and 30 calibers in the 223 case. The 6 being a favorite and the 7 being second. I cant comment on the 6.5 as i am just getting geared up for it as i type.
The 30 was my least favorite. I tried running it sub sonic with heavy bullets and found it to be a less than favorable for me. I did however run it up to super sonic and found a load or two that would shoot well, but not good or excellent.
In a 6TCU or 6-223, H335 and a 60-80 grain FLGC bullet is my go to powder.
jeff

[Rockydog]

JSH, No sarcasm intended here. Your comments are probably right on the money. I guess I shouldn't make general comments based on personal experience. All I know is that I've been reloading for nearly 30 years including various wildcats and military stuff. The 6TCU was the most miserable SOB I've ever worked with. Stuck case after stuck case until I lightly honed my die with jewelers polishing compound and switched case lubes. I also had headspacing problems which were eventually traced to Contenderitis. Reenforcing your point about cases not being formed to fit the gun. All that being said, after all the headaches, it's the most fun to shoot of any cartridge I've ever loaded using both J and cast. I still feel that the 6x45 would yield less headaches just due to general cartridge shape. Thanks for pointing out the errors in my post so I could set the record straight. Sometimes I shouldn't post so late at night when I'm tired. RD

[JSH]

rockydog, I had a fair amount of issues whenIi first started working with wildcats. The old gent who had helped me, actaully who pushed me towards them to try, has been gone a good many years. He had his own thoughts and ways on them and I question some of them even still.
Mentioning TC in the above, answered a lot of things. I have had custom and factory barrels chambered for both of the 6's. I had things come up with both that you mention. The rounded rather than sharp shoulder was one of them. I didn't have maybe more than10-20 over the roughly 2K of brass I formed. I even tied to fire form them a second time and they just never would "clean" up so they were tossed.
I eventually annealed all of the brass where there was going to be a lot of material moving and the problem went away. Off the top of my head I had ZERO problems with milsurp 223, BUT, I always annealed it. That is why I started annealing even virgin brass.
I am down to one of the above mentioned, a 6-223 on an XP platform. I have had this one for about 10 years and doubt i will part ways with it. I do have another donor action and am up in the air to go either witha 223AI with a slow twist or a6TCU. I have run the TCU from 55-s through the 105's and find it a dandy for up to 80 grianers. Sorry gents all FLGC stuff as I crowd them fairly hard.
jeff

[dk17hmr]

Doug,

Who made your 6x45 upper?

Bruce

I am bad at following threads I post on. I bought the upper as a whole, but found out it was for a large pin colt.....So I saved the barrel and gas system from it and put together my own upper, I have to tools required to do so. The barrel was made by Mark Chanlynn from Rocky Mountain Rifle works, I bought the upper from his buisness partner. I have yet to shoot it as I just finished it up tonight after work, its ready to hit the bench.

[bruce drake]

The barrel was made by Mark Chanlynn from Rocky Mountain Rifle works, I bought the upper from his buisness partner. I have yet to shoot it as I just finished it up tonight after work, its ready to hit the bench.

Could you PM me his contact information?

Thanks.

Bruce

[Drphilwv]

So this was some time ago but did you ever finish the 8mmx223 AR? Wondered if you had reamers etc. made up.

I necked mine all the way up to 8mm size --- I cut the cases off right at the shoulder joint and then use a custom order neck size die I had Lee make me to put in the neck and slight shoulder.

I'm building and AR to accept the cartridge. Been test shooting them out of an old 8mm Mauser with a chamber insert to accept the smaller cartridge for testing purposes.



Yah --- yah --- yah --- I know the photo shows a condum bullet instead of a real boolit but that was my initial "test of concept" dummy round and the only picture I have taken of it so far.

[MT Gianni]

Profile shows no activity since 2012, I doubt you will get an answer.