Hot .30-30 loads

[Lloyd Smale]

the marlin is a stronger action and has been chambered in rounds that aproach 50000psi chamber pressure and can take ammo a bit hotter then factory with eaze. The 3030 is a round that is loaded conservitively by all the ammo manufactures and data in the books are conservititive too for the same reasons the 257 and 757 and many other rounds are loaded down. Even a new wincheter will take a bit more pressure then whats in the books. I wont give out loads I use that arent in a loading manual but its nothing to take a 3030 into spitting range of a 300 sav. Now whether your gaining any killing power is very debateable. Id say no. the bullets used in 3030s are designed to open up at lower velocitys anyway and can be a bit destructive even in factory ammo and pushing them is just going to make it worse. I would have to worry about penetration on anything bigger then a small deer with hot ammo. As to flatter trajectory a guy that knows his gun and load can easily take game to 200 yards with a 3030 using factory level ammo. If i want to shoot deer farther out then that im going to bring the proper tool to do it

[358 Win]

Agree with what Tony 6.5x55 said. You might have a safe condition of a spitzer 150 in the chamber and one in magazine. However, your OAL will be too long so deep seating will be required reducing your already limited powder capacity. Also will your 150gr spitzer expand on game? Buy a .300 Savage 99 and never look back. My .300's send a 150gr bullet out the muzzle at 2700fps no sweat.
Those 150 spitzers DO expand at that velocity and are DEADLY on deer. My 99 in .300 Savage is one of the MOST accurate firearms in my collection.
358 Win

[frank505]

Try the 130 Grain Speer flat point and work up an accurate load using Reloader 7. I have shot a bunch of deer and antelope with this bullet. Nice sized wound channel and have never recovered a bullet.
I also shoot the Saeco #307 ( 180 grain FPGC) with 42 grains of 4895. Very accurate and good killer on deer.
The little Speer 110 grain flat hollow point is a heck of a killer on p-dogs and coyotes, very loud noise when it hits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[XWrench3]

i will chime in my 2 cents worth here also. forget about hot rodding a 30-30! all you are going to do is hurt yourself! buy as hot of a round as you can, and leave it at that. if you want 30-06 performance, get a 30-06! guns are not like cars or motorcycles, where the amount of power can easilly be doubled. i know, i have done it many times with autos and bikes. but guns are almost to their limits right out of the box. if you try pushing these, they will push back, HARD! and they WILL HURT YOU!

[Uncle R.]

You really can get some pretty impressive performance from a .30-30 as long as your .30-30 is a 788.

[MitchK]

You really can get some pretty impressive performance from a .30-30 as long as your .30-30 is a 788.

Or a Ruger No1 !! I've been following this thread with interest hoping to find a new load for mine.

[Retro]

My 336 gives the best *accuracy* with the Sierra 170 grain J-word at 2300 fps.

*shrugs*

[John Y Cannuck]

I've taken moose with the 30-30 loaded below max, with a single Hornady Interlock.

I've shot end to end through whitetail with wheel weight cast bullets at 1950 fps.


I don't understand why anyone would want better performance than that.

One more consideration. Spitzers are designed for higher velocities, and, unless you use the Hornady designed for the 30-30, may not expand properly at 30-30 velocities.

[pls1911]

The discussion on this thread has been interesting , up to a point.
The need for speed /flatter trajectory/ and magic bullets is NOT what the .30-30 is about! It's good enough out to 150 yards... and in 50+ years of hunting, I've never taken a shot that far.
I have to agree with the consensus above that if you want to hot rod the 30-30, go to an '06 or .308.

I've made four converts to the 30-30 from hard core .270/'06 crowd by simply loaning them an old scoped .30-30 with 170-180 grain cast bullets pushed at 1900 fps.
With the .30-30's relatively low recoil, low noise, and drop in their tracks performance, the common response was "Why have I been stubbornly beating myself up all these years....this 30-30 was fun!" Each bought his own "old gun" and shoots only cast bullets, which I am pleased to provide. Their other guns now collect dust.

[1Shirt]

Gotta like, maybe love the 30-30. Have a thing for my 94, and ought to pick up a Marlin if I can find one used and reasonable.

Still think that probably more game, of all types edible and non edible has been shot with 30-30 than with any other ctg. But it is sort of like the plain Jane, that you took home to Mom and that stayed with you for the rest of your life while the flashy Janes got traded off. It is a rifle that compares to comfort food, and once in awhile, there is nothing that tastes quite as good as a big greasy cheesburger. It is a fun ctg and have loaded just about everything I could think of in it. That includes round ball (even did two-but only once), 22cal 55 grain Jacketed w/sabots, and every blt wt that I cast up to and including 200 grainers.

Have shot spire pointed hard cast w/one in the chamber, and one only in the tube, and had excellent sucess. Nothing wrong with having only two shots, but ya need to have your head on straight regarding safety w/spire points and 94's. Have gotten good case life by only full length sizing after annealing about ever 5th or 6th. load. Have a number of rifles with a number of different cals, but a few times a year just have to take the old dirty-thirty out. Really a great woman/kids starter rifle now with Trail Boss cowboy action loads by the way.
1Shirt!

[Larry Gibson]

Gray Fox

Suggest you look at my thread on loading LeveRevoltion powder under 150 gr bullets. I am getting 2540 fps with less psi than factory LeveRevolution loads and less psi than several regular 150 gr factory loads. Accuracy is also excellent. My testing was done with my M94AE with 24" barrel.

You will find the problem with spitzers, even the 150 gr ones, is the ogive is too long for a correct oal to be fed from the magazine. The shorter 125/130 gr SPs can feed ok. However, the Hornady 160 gr FTX bullets are readily available, comparably priced to other tipped bullets. You can easily duplicate the factory load using LeveRevolution powder at under SAAMI psi's for the 30-30. They run 2400+ fps out of my M94AE also with excellent accuracy. With those you will not have to use only one round in the tube mag.

Paco Kelly snipped the ends off Hornady 130 gr SPs to use in his loads in newer made M94s with 24" barrels. I have developed and used his loads with the 130 Speer FP and 150 gr FN/RN 30-30 loads for some years. The powder used is H335. I developed his loads using the method PO Ackley described as did Paco. They are good loads for use in new M94s and the new Marlins both with 24" barrels. However, let me say this; the psi as measured in my M94AE with an Oehler M43 exceed the SAAMI MAP for the 30-30 cartridge of 42,000 psi. The psi(M43) that I measured for my Paco Kelly loads with the 130 gr Speer FP at 2758 fps were at the SAAMI MPLM level of 44,000 psi. I consider these loads as to much for older M94s and should be used only in recently made M94s such as the M94AEs and then with considerable caution, Paco also made this recommendation in his writings. With the release of LeveRevolution powder such loads are not really necessary as with 150 gr bullets 2500+ fps can easly be attained with psi's well within the SAAMI MAP, much smarter and safer that way.

With the 150 or particularly the 160 FTX bullet and LeveRevolution powder the 30-30 out of a 24" barrel becomes a 300 yard deer or antelope cartridge. With either the M94AE or the Marlin s with 24" barrels using a scope one can utilize this capability. Even in older 20" barrels the LeveRevolution loads give safe and much better ballistics than with older powders using comparable psi loads. Makes them definately 200+ yard deer rifles with a much flatter trajectory.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

Interesting thread, surely. I've not seen the need to extend the 30-30 WCF past its 1895 load levels, since it works so darn well at that intensity--and there have always been 308s or 30-06s in the safe as well. Sierra 170 FN ahead of 32.0 grains of WW-748 runs 2125-2150 FPS from my Win 94/20" barrel, and stays 2.0 MOA to 150 yards. Same story with castings, Lymans #311041 or #311291 over 28.0 to 30.0 of WW-748......2 MOA to 150 yards, 1850-2000 FPS. Those boolits cast as softpoints would make a great vension harvester.

[Larry Gibson]

Huh....one slight correction 9.3x62AL; Those boolits cast as softpoints do make a great vension harvester.

Larry Gibson

[northmn]

Like the others, I prefer using the Savage 99 if I am sitting over a field where the shots get longer. I took a deer at 140 paces from the tree with a cast load for the 30-30 and felt that that was about the extent of my range with peep sights. The lever carbines and rifles do not lend themselves to longer range shooting. Also I found cast bullets if done right seem to work better than jacketed ones. About the only jacketed that will perform with a cast bullet might be a Nosler partition. I can get about 2000 fps with a cast 188 grain bullet out of my 24 inch barreled Marlin which has been an excellent load. Look at Cannuck's pictures when you think about souping up a 30-30. They are a good tool for their purpose.

DP

[Larry Gibson]

I would add that using leveRevolution powder does not "soup up" the loads in the sense of increasing pressures for "hot loads". The LeveRevolution loads operate at pressures consistent with SAAMI specs and give less psi than several traditional factory 30-30 loads with an increase of 200+ fps. In the 24" newer made Winchesters and Marlins with 24" barrels and the availability of using scopes the accuracy and cartridge potential with LeveRevolution powder definately makes them 300 yard deer/antelope rifles.

I've shot many a deer, an elk and numerous varmints with the 311041 loaded to 2000 fps out of 20" barreled carbines and have no qualms with using it under 200 yards. I'm looking forward to testing the LeveRevolution powder under the 311041 in the 24" barreled M94AE and the 20" barreled Carbine. If one can push that cast bullet to 2200 fps with accuracy and lower psi's out of the 20" barrel and perhaps 2400 fps out of the 24" barrel then that is a definate improvement.

The point is; with LeveRevolution powder you can "soup up" the 30-30 without increasing pressures. No one says anyone has to do it. If anyone is perfectly satisfied with what they've been using that's fine by me and most everyone else. However, if an advantage can be safely had and someone wants to use it then by all means do so, in my opinion anyways.

Larry Gibson

[dualsport]

I saw it on tv. You can not kill a deer with a 30-30 anymore. Those weak deer are all gone. Evolution I guess. Shots now are taken 600 yds. plus. The farther the better, if you shoot at a mulie at 925 MEASURED yards you are the man. Gonna need something flatter shooting for that, and a laser range finder too. A spotter to walk you in is also good. Hunting is out. Pretending you are a special ops sniper/operator is in. (Sorry, it was in me and had to come out. There's actually a show called "Long Range Pursuit"! Disgusting.) I love my old 94.

[Larry Gibson]

I think "long range" is relative. A 100+ yard shot can be very long range and taxing to the probable majority of lever action 30-30 owners. Talking about the ones that buy the rifle, a box of ammo (probably never buy the same kind twice with choice being made on what Walmart has on sale), assume the rifle is zeroed, have no idea what a proper sight alignment and sight picture is and usually jerk the trigger anyway. If they zero it is once a year, maybe, at a coffee can at what they think is 50 yards in a gravel pit but is more likely closer to 25 yards. If the hit close, that is "close enough" and they go blissfully away hunting. If lucky they may go to a "sighting in day" at a local range and get closer to actual zero. 100 yards is "long range" to them.

Out of a properly zeroed 20" carbine, even with factory sights, a good shooter can use the 30-30 cartridge to 150 yards and probably even 200 yards if they know what they're doing. With a properly zeroed carbine with aperture sights the 200 yards range is just about a given. Now, put the old 30-30 out of a 24" barrel, particularly with a Marlin or Winchester AE with a scope on it, use good ammo and the 200 yard shots are easily done. Using "hotter" loads or better yet, the LeveRevoltuion ammo and 250 - 300 yards shots on deer/antelop can also be easily done and it can be done quite safely.

Some like the shorter range capability of standard loads, including cast, in the carbine 30-30s and it suits the hunting conditions used in just fine. However, some of us like the lever action Marlins or Winchester M94s who hunt more open places where shots out to 300 yards are fairly common. Having ammunition and lever actions that enable us to effectively hunt under those conditions is simply what I am talking about. If some are happy with the standard 30-30 and it suits their hunting conditions then so be it. But is it really necessary to chasticise those who seek better performance from the cartridge using a rifle instead of a carbine to hunt in places where longer range shots are probable and taking them with a rifle capable of the accuracy to do it with? Granted most deer are killed on the short side of 200 yards but its certainly nice to be able to reach across a clear cut to 300 yards if you can, with a rifle you like to use.......

Larry Gibson

[rintinglen]

I have shot a lot of lever action silhouette--220 yards (200 meters) is a long shot with iron sights and a lever gun. I have sent 311-041s down range at 2300 fps from a 26 inch barreled M-94 commemorative, I have also had to rebarrel said 94 due to a jugged chamber. I suppose it might make a hands breadth of difference if you send a bullet at 2400 feet per second as opposed to 2200, but at an honest 300 yard range, you re still looking at a foot and a half or so of drop, and a flight time of .13 to .14 seconds. Any wind worth mentioning will be able to turn a heart shot into a gut shot. If you contemplate a need for 300 yard shots, you need more gun than a 30-30, loaded anyway you care to.

If, on the otherhand, you only want to kill deer or deer size game at commonly encountered distances, then you don't need much more than a 30-30 ever.

[Larry Gibson]

HHHmmmmm......then I wonder why the 30-30 isn't the only cartridge we have.......



BTW; Both the M94AE and the Marlins with 24" barrels can easily be scoped for much greater accuracy, particularly at distance. When zeroed at 200 yard the LeveRevolution ammo (what was referenced as "300 yard" capable 30-30 ammo) is 2.8" high at 100 and 12.8" low at 300 yards. The 311041 at 2400 fps when zeroed at 200 yards makes a very fine 250 yard cartrodge. The drop is only 6" at 250 yards with 1580 fps remaining velocity. Both are very adequate for deer within those ranges and "much more than a 30-30" is not needed, if you can shoot, that is. It's just a matter of being able to take advatage of the potential that is there.

However, if you still hunt and your shots are on deer within 100 yards or you sit in a blind and wait 'til the deer come to the feeder within 100 yards (I've no problem with that) using a carbine 30-30 with issue sights then the LeveRevolution loads will not give any advantage as mentioned. Just depends on the places and the style of your hunting. Some of us do appreciate the added potential. If you don't that's fine also.

Larry Gibson

[Canuck Bob]

I think as hunters some of us pick cartridges to limit ourselves. I added a 58 flintlock to my safe. It is my whitetail rifle. If I absolutely must harvest what I see I would pick a different rifle. As it is 100 yards is max with my limits. 200 yards has always been my hunting limit, I disagree with long range hunting, noone ever confess' to loosing game but many animals suffer from the practice of long range hunting. If we have one firm committment it must be that our quarry dies hard and fast. If I had to feed my family and ignore the ethics and laws of our sport I'd use a 30/30 and jack light over a salt block (don't ask) but as a hunter I won't bait even where it is legal.

The 30/30 was considered a standard big game rifle in northern Canada for a long time. Within its limits a rifleman is well armed to roam the wildest bush. Many trappers considered the 303 Lee Enfield as too much rifle due to its large size and being much less handy. I can't remember a farm house without a 303 leaning in the corner for bears and gas thieves. Both would run like the dickens when a 303 barked.

As a handloader the practice of loading hot, within safe limits, is part of the fun. Paco loads everything a notch over my comfort level but he is hardly a run of the mill gun nut or unsafe. I'm sure from his writing that he sneaks up on those loads in each rifle. There is quite a difference between a stoked hunting round used a few times a season to a high volume practice round. My 32-20 is pegged at BP energy levels by SAMMI. My Winoku is a strong rifle of the best modern steels with outstanding fit and tolerances. So I can experiment and I'm planning to sneak-up on a couple of Paco's loads. If i owned a 30/30 I would shoot 10-15 hot rounds a season and develop a steady diet of mid pressure cast target rounds all year. If you can hit where you aim every time with your heart pounding even a 243 could be considered a deer rifle, time to duck and cover!