remington 700 sps varmint

[257 ROB]

Does anyone have any experience with the remington 700 sps varmint in a 22-250.:confused:

[versifier]

No, but I've been loading the .22-250 for more than 30 years.

[257 ROB]

what load do you use, if you don't mind me asking?

[versifier]

My rifle, a Rem788 with a 1/10 twist, likes Sierra 55g SBT and HPBT GameKings best over IMR 3031. When I was younger and hunted with it often, I could hit golf balls at 400yds. Not every shot, and not every day was a good one, but that is what the rifle is capable of. It would do the same with MatchKings, but I wanted hunting bullets for clean kills on large New England coyotes. The rifle's disadvantage is the skinny buggy whip barrel that heats up quicky, but I hunted coyotes, so three shots was the most I ever got. Knowing that I could cover a 10shot group at 100yds with a dime has always been a big confidence booster. My brother got himself a new Savage a couple of years ago in the same chambering, and while were are still in the load testing process, it shows a marked preference for Sierra GK's also, though it doesn't like 3031 quite as much as mine does. (It's leaning towards BL-C2 and 4895.) Those are the bullets I would start with, but your rifle may or may not agree. Every rifle has its own opinions on the matter.

[257 ROB]

which one would you go with the remington 700 sps or savage 110 both with a heavy barrel?

[257 ROB]

I have a h&r 223 but i would like something with a little more reach.

[versifier]

Well, that's an easy opinion for me. I have never been a fan of the Rem700. I think they dropped the ball when they stopped making the 788, a much more accurate rifle at a much lower price. I suspect it was starting to affect sales of their much more profitable 700, not to mention continuing to make it look bad in comparison. They have a model 700 with a detachable mag, though, and for me that's a big plus in a hunting rifle. I am glad to see Rem is selling a Mauser 98, even if it is imported. A much better design that has stood the test of time. I would buy one of them if I didn't have a safe full of real Mausers. The mini's don't have the claw extractor, so I lost interest in them.

I would go with the Savage, no question. One of the most accurate out of the box production rifles made today, great triggers, and so simple to swap barrels on that it's almost like a Contender/Encore with a magazine. I have yet to see one that was made in the last ten years that wasn't MOA with factory ammo and a lot better with handloads. (I also get Gun Tests, and they agree.) Many will complain that they aren't the prettiest rifles around. So what. The targets are pretty enough for me. As a friend says, "It's like an ugly woman with ...ahem... talents. Turn off the light." I don't buy rifles for how they look on my wall, in fact I never display them at all. (I do own several pretty ones, but they've only stayed with me because they can shoot little groups, not because I like the stocks.) I would go with the laminated stock and heavy barrel if I wasn't going to be carrying it, synthetic and lighter barrel if I was. My brother's is a laminate with heavy barrel and I would buy one like it in a minute if I didn't own my Rem 788.

[257 ROB]

I am going to be crawling with my ghillie suit on so lighter would be better but i can fire a lot more rounds through a heavy barrle. what about the savage stevens model200

[versifier]

Basically the same rifle with a less expensive stock.

[257 ROB]

yah looks dont count much when you miss the trophy of a life time. And ruger also makes an accurate rifle. what are your thoughts on them?

[versifier]

I like the model 77 action a lot, but I don't like it as much as I do Mauser 98's. The #1 is a great single shot, as were the old #3's, but if I'm going to have a single shot, I'd rather have one I can switch barrels on, so I own a Contender. The mini 14 is an action I love, (who couldn't love Garand's masterpiece?) but I have yet to own or shoot one that can do 2MOA (I haven't shot one of the new target versions), the mini 30 seems to be a bit more accurate, but still not good enough for the money they ask for it. I think the 10/22 is the last rimfire rifle I will ever buy and I wouldn't sell mine. The old .44mag semi's are great little deer rifles. I've never shot one of the levers, so I have no opinion on them. All in all, I like Ruger rifles and the newer ones seem to be much more accurate than the older ones.

[257 ROB]

Do you have any experience with the new 338 federal in the ruger or any other rifle?

[versifier]

No, I have never even seen one to examine it.

[257 ROB]

I hear it is great elk and deer gun for short to med ranges. so that would probably suit me for the rest of my life other than a few toys.

[versifier]

I would shoot one if someone handed it to me and said "Go for it!" But there is no way on earth I would even consider buying one. Honestly, I can't see that it would give any practical advantage at all over a .308 or an -06. I could load a lot of rounds of .308 with decent bullets (at least 100) for what they want for twenty .338Feds from the factory. For reloading, the brass is priced beyond belief (if and when you could find it), as are the loading dies (good luck finding them, too), and there's a laughably minimal bullet selection compared to .30 cal. There's four strikes right there, more than enough to count it out. It's just another "answer in search of a problem" designer cartridge, a rather feeble attempt to boost flagging rifle sales, and it won't do anything that dozens of current offerings won't do as well or better. I'd bet it will be obsolete in two years. I would rather have the 77 in .358win if I thought a .308 wasn't big enough. With either I could even shoot cast bullets for most of my hunting needs or go jacketed if I wanted more range than 150yds or more knockdown power. For target use, the old unfancy .308 is one of the most inherently accurate cartridges ever designed. So, what's the .338Fed actually good for besides some speculation over a few beers? An adequate short range big game round, of which we already have a gazillion. Why fix what works?

[257 ROB]

I don't know i might go for a 30-06 in ruger or remington cdl. Was shooting my dads last weekend and loved it put 9 rounds in the bottom of a paper cup. I think that's pretty good for an original Ruger M77.

[versifier]

It's really good. There were runs of Rugers 25-30 years ago that had Green Mountain Barrels, I know because I was working for GMRB at the time. Those were much more accurate than their own barrels. I was looking in the gun shop where they sell my custom knives today at their selection of Savages, especially at the one with a detatchable mag. The prices were all around $400 give or take a little, and that has Rem & Ruger beat by a considerable margin. The new S&W rifles looked good, too, but were a bit pricey.

[257 ROB]

What are your thoughts on the weatherby vanguard. And does the monte carlo stock help with recoil?

[versifier]

I think the Vangard is a well made and fitted rifle with a not undeserved reputation for decent out of the box accuracy. I still mentally cringe when I hear the Weatherby name for two reasons: remembering those super shiny flashy ugly stocks they sold when I was a kid, and what it felt like to shoot one of their big magnums back then (not pleasant). I like the new ones, how they look and how they shoot.

The monte Carlo stock has one purpose, namely to put your head in the proper position to see through a scope. They have no effect on felt recoil per se. The things that affect recoil are the overall weight of the rifle and the quality of the recoil pad, not to overlook bore diameter, bullet weight, and case capacity. Shooting offhand, a light little Win94 carbine with a metal buttplate in .30-30 shooting 170gr loads is not at all fun in a t-shirt and two shots is enough. A very heavy single shot .50BMG with bipod and thick pad can feel like a medium weight .243 at the bench and you want to shoot it all day.

[257 ROB]

I think i am going to go with a 270 wsm for the fact that it can reach out a little farther than the 270win which is still a great cartridge given the time it was developed.

[257 ROB]

Hey Versifier, which do you think would be better for an all around rifle, a Weatherby Vanguard or a a ruger Hawkeye?

[versifier]

It depends on what kind of "all around" you mean. It's the chambering that makes for versatility the way I see it. Beyond that it would depend on which one fit me better when I shouldered it. My all around is a .308 Rem 788 that I have been shooting since I was in my 20's. It shoots little light bullets (110's and 125's), bigger heavy bullets(150's, 165's & 180's), and several weights of cast bullets (117-180) very well. That's as close to all around as I can figure, and then I have a Contender with a bunch of different rifle and pistol barrels, that's pretty all around, too. I think that has both ends of all around covered, one versatile chambering, and one versatile platform.

I think a person is better off to pick one rifle as a primary hunting rifle and stick to it, shoot it regularly, and try it with different weights and styles of bullets to know what it will and won't do. It has to have a stock that fits the shooter, has to be appropriate for whatever game is actually going to be hunted (not what might, someday, in the future, if you hit the lottery), has to be accurate, and has to have a tolerable recoil level so it's fun to shoot and will get shot regularly.

[257 ROB]

Yah you are right about that but I do not favor the 308 because every shot i've seen has been shots that just wound the animal. The type of hunting I will be doing is open country so a flat shooting cartridge like the 270wsm or the 7mmRM would be best for me. And both have comparable felt recoil. Do you have any experience with either?

[257 ROB]

I might also go with a 300wsm as a one and only rifle.(other than a few toys)

[versifier]

One friend hunts with the .270wsm, but he is the kind of hunter that would fill his tag every year with a rock if that was what was available. Spends months scouting and gets his deer the first day of bow or rifle season then hunts with his kids. For the most part around here 250yds is a very long shot, 80% of deer are taken within 35yds, brush and woods are thick and heavy. If a .308 won't do dear, bear, or moose around here, the problem is the hunter, not the rifle. If the country is open enough that you are seriously looking at 300-350yd shots, either will do you. 7mag isn't really popular around here, but I have shot them and know one person who likes to take one to NewFoundland for caribou. I much prefer the 7x57 or 7-08, but again, I do not nedd something that can reach way out there. Given a choice between the .270wsm and the .300wsm, my shoulder would go for the .270 every time. (Whenever someone gets a new .300, we find two or at most three cases on the ground at the range, then we know there's a new one available down to the pawn shop.) The recoil can be brutal, especially in a very light rifle. A regular .270 is effective on deer out to 300yds.

You know, it's one thing to have a rifle that's capable of really long range shooting, but it's quite another thing to get in enough parctice so the shooter is capable of it. The bench doesn't count. You have to put the paper plate out there and be able to hit it every time offhand. (And if you CAN'T, you've no business shooting at anything but paper beyond the range where you can.) That is not easy to do at 200, never mind 300 or 400yds. It takes a LOT of practice, and with a hard kicking rifle, you have the development of a possible flinch to worry about, too. Once you get competent at long range, you have to stay in practice, too, or you lose your edge pretty quick. That's a lot of shooting, powder, bullets, and primers. Estimating range to figure bullet drop is another difficulty, but a range finder can help save many misses. I write the drop figures of the load I'm using on my stock. No rifle can replace the ability to get yourself into the proper position and range before attempting a shot, not can the rifle decide on taking a marginal shot or waiting - that hasn't changed, even if modern cartridges will sometimes give you a little more practical range.

[257 ROB]

I guess the longest shot i would make is 350yds and last year i took a mature mulie dow at about 325yds with my 257 Roberts and i was comfortable with that. Another option for me would be a 280Rem I think it is a happy medium between them for recoil and power.

[257 ROB]

Hey versifier, what do you think about the new Ruger M77 Hawkeye with the new LC6 trigger? And would you reccomend one of the new Ruger M2's? Because they are a working rifle not just for the eyes.

[versifier]

I've only seen pictures of them. Not enough info to answer.

[257 ROB]

I think i might see if i can get my hands a new winchester sporter deluxe or a Ruger mark 2 or a Hawkeye. I hunt mostly open fields with shots being mostly inside 400yds. Which calibre do you suggest for this type of hunting on deer and elk sized game. And i would only be shooting at elk within 300yds on a good day.

[versifier]

Well, for a handloader, .30cal has the greatest choice of bullets, but I would want something easier on the shoulder with a magnum. Nothing wrong with 6.5, 7mm or .300Mags, various Weatherby's, or any of the wsm's either (.270, 7mm or .300). A lot of cartridges out there will do what you want. Find a rifle that fits you and is comfortable for you to shoot, that's most important. The chambering may be ideal, but if the stock doesn't fit you you will never be comfortable shooting it.

[257 ROB]

Have you ever handloaded weatherby cases? I heard that a lot of the cases shoulder collapses when you seat the bullet, because of the sharp angle. Because a 257 weatherby would be perfect other than that. I also like shooting the 30-06 and if i put a Burris ballistic plex scope it would be great.

[versifier]

Weatherby cases are no more difficult to load than any other belted magnum rifle case. You can collapse any case neck if you aren't careful to prepare the brass by chamfering it and seating slow and easy. Short case life with belted cases is an occasional issue, but usually with those of larger caliber than .257.

[257 ROB]

Thanks for the info. Would you reccomend the 257 weatherby mag for long range deer and antelope.

[versifier]

The cartridge is more than capable.

[257 ROB]

Would you go with the vanguard or mark v for that caliber?

[versifier]

I would go with the one that fit me best, if they did.

[257 ROB]

One thing about the vanguard is it fits me nice and it is a working mans rifle. If I bought the mark V I would be scared to actually use it.

[257 ROB]

I also just looked at a vanguard and I like the weight, because I'm used it carrying a 10 pound monster everywhere it felt like a feather. The action is smooth as butter, the only downfall I see would be cleaning out the barrle flutes.

[257 ROB]

Sorry about that mix up bolt flutes not barrel flutes.