6.5x55 for elk?

[257 ROB]

Would a 6.5x55 be sufficent for elk inside 300 yds. Me and my dad are going on an elk hunt this september and I want to use his old 6.5x55 with open sights. The hunt is in northern saskatchewan, and we are guaranteed a 350 class bull.

Cant wait

[versifier]

They use it for moose in Scandinavia. I think it is one of the more versatile hunting cartridges in existence, right up there with 7X57 and .30-06. (I'm building a custom Yugo Mauser for my youngest daughter in that chambering as we speak.) Bullet selection is critical for very large game: Nosler 140gr PAR's, Swift 140gr AFrame, Barnes 130gr TSX (you need special loading data), Speer 140gr Hot-Cor. You need a bullet designed to penetrate, not thinner jacketed ones that are designed for deer. Speers are about the best deal, but Nosler PAR's are time proven and still not as expensive as other premium offerings.

[257 ROB]

Yah I guess it would be a good elk rifle with tough bullets, but im not sure if it would bring down a large bull elk in one shot.

[versifier]

You put the bullet through the boiler room, you have a dead animal.

Quartering shots are never the best when you have a large critter and a long range, but proper bullet placement is always the key.

A gut shot with a .50BMG is as poor a shot as one with a .30-06, and a heart shot with a 6.5 is just as deadly as one with a .338mag.

It comes down to an ethical question: Do you pull the trigger when the shot is marginal or do you wait for a better one and insure a quick clean kill? Can you pass up a shot when you're not sure?

"One shot kill - DRT" is a great discussion for the hunting camp, and again leads to a question of ethics: Do you get off as many shots as you can before it goes into cover, out of range, or collapses, or do you fire just once and wait to see if it was a good shot or not? What if that one shot hit a bit farther back than you thought? My buddy says, "It's always one shot that kills 'em, but that shot might be the second or third one you fire." When your heart starts racing, it's not always easy to stay calm and composed enough to make a perfect shot every time. It isn't for me, anyway, and never has been. ;)

I know that there is often time to fire several shots through heart/lungs (any one of them fatal) before a moose finally figures out it's dead and falls over, and it's not unusual for a well hit animal to go a hundred yards or more before its blood pressure falls enough to drop it, especially if it's charged up with adrenaline. With a deer or a bear (or even a woodchuck) if there is an opportunity to fire more than once I keep shooting. (I'm NOT talking about spray & pray.) They don't always drop instantly when they are fatally hit, but it's nice when it happens and makes for a good hunting story. Though I have never had a chance to hunt them, I doubt elk are any different.

[257 ROB]

I know what your talking about with the adrenaline rush, I just don't look at the antlers and focus on the body. And on the hunt my dad will be shooting his 30-06 and his friend probably a 338, so I've got plenty of back up. And if the shot is out of range for the old 6.5x55 than I might just use my dads 30-06. I think I'll go with the nosler partition 140gr with I.M.R 4350 it seems to be the most efficient load for my purposes.

[versifier]

As long as the rifle agrees with you. Remember that PAR's are not always the most accurate of bullets in many rifles, but they sure do perform well. I have only one rifle that really likes them, in most of the others the 100yd groups open up by an inch or two - no big deal within 200yds, but it would definitely a concern if the ranges got longer. Just don't expect them to shoot like Sierra's. The longest range they pass the pieplate test offhand is a practical max for them (and if you can get a good solid rest in the field and have some time to get ready, you can extend that by quite a bit, but you have to know what the limits are in the worst case: offhand and unsupported.) They do cost, but when all is said and done, ammo is the least expensive part of the hunt, and the process of working up the loads gives you time to get very familiar with the rifle and the round. With the peep sights on my .308, I can keep them all in the plate at 150yds offhand, though with a solid rest I would not hesitate to take a 250yd shot. Of course a scope would extend those ranges by quite a bit, but I'm as likely as not to jump something at 25yds and a scope is (as I found out the hard way a long time ago) useless as wheels on a potato at that range. Your circumstances are are very different, but the practical aspects of range limitations as conditions change are still the same. I'm glad you got me to thinking about such things as I have a Hunter Ed class starting next Friday - I have to keep my talk on ethics interesting enough that a couple dozen teens can stay awake through it.

[257 ROB]

I think I might go with sierra gamekings, they work well in my dads 30-06 and they open up nicley. They perform very well on deer sized game. And with iron sites on the 6.5x55 I will have to put in a lot of range time, what do you think I should use for a target for the size of an elks kill zone?

[257 ROB]

Hey Versifier,if the old 6.5x55 with iron sights is shooting to the left, shouldn't i just move the rear sight to the left?

[versifier]

I would use the same target you normally use to practice for deer season, just increase the distance.

I like the confidence that the accuracy of GK's give me, but they're broadside shots only for larger game. If a cup & core bullet is going to fail, it will be on a quartering shot. These last few years, I have been loading strictly Nosler PAR's for friends to use on moose after a Hornady failed and came apart on a shot from the rear quarter before reaching the boiler room. His hunting partner dropped it with a 180PAR from a .300mag. (In NH, if you get a moose tag, you get to bring another hunter to help, called a "subpermitee".) No real difference in construction between the Hornady and the SierraGK, though the GK has an edge on accuracy in most of my rifles. I would rather have the PAR for larger game, all the more so because it will be a special hunt and you might only get one good opportunity in the time you will have. Remember, you don't have to practice with the premium bullets, just work up the load and check your sights before the hunt to make sure they're zero'd for them. I would practice with cheaper Rem Corloct, or the GK's (and save some GK loads for deer).

No, you move the rear sight in the same direction you want the POI to move. If it's shooting to the left, you want the POI to move to the right, so you move the rear sight to the right. (It's the front sight that moves opposite.) What kind of rifle is it?

[257 ROB]

It is an swedish mauser with a craig action. But I don't understand if you move the rear sight to the left how it would balance it out, wouldn't it make it go more to the left?

[257 ROB]

What I meant to say was if you move the rear sight to the right wouldn't it make it shoot more to the left.

[versifier]

One picture is worth a thousand words. PM me your email and I will send it to you.

[versifier]

You are picturing in your mind what happens when the front sight is moved. The front moves the group in the opposite direction.

Changing the rear sight in effect moves the muzzle in the opposite direction to the sight movement. It is confusing at first, until you can picture what is actually happening to the bore alignment (POI - Point of Impact) vs the sight picture (POA - Point of Aim) as the rear sight moves. If you don't understand after I send the picture to you, I will try to explain it in words, but it will take a page or so.

[257 ROB]

Yes that does make more sense now that I think about it. Do you know the rifle I am talking about, it was built in 1915.

[versifier]

I have seen a Krag like that, but most of the older 6.5 Swedes I've gotten to know have been Mausers.

[257 ROB]

Yah I have been told that this rifle is worth a lot but I won't sell it, it is an extremely accurate rifle too.

[257 ROB]

And for how old the rifle is, the stock looks like it is brand new. The only thing I wish I could do is put a scope on it, but since the whole top of the action is completly open I don't know what kind of mounts to use. Do you have any suggestions?

[versifier]

If I have the right action in memory, with a split rear reciever ring or one that has to be forward of the action, you want a scout mount with an intermediate eye relief scope like a Leupold 2.5X Scout IER. I have that setup on my K31 sporter. That wouldn't be a long range rifle with that scope, but I have a 4X handgun scope in a scout mount on a Mauser 98 that works well, too, and you could put a variable handgun scope on it if you liked for more magnification. The K31 mount replaces the mil rear sight, but the one on my Mauser is IIRC an XS Systems Scout Mount that was fairly easy to install. I doubt you could find a mount specifically made for it, but I'm sure there's one out there that could be adapted to it. What kind of rear sight is on it?

[257 ROB]

I honostly couldn't tell you, all I know is that maybe I could get a side mount that brings the scope over into position. What do you mean by what kind I might be able to find out?

[257 ROB]

I fpund a side mount in a catalog, it is a weaver detatchable side mount. Or do you think I might be able to get away with regular rings?

[versifier]

Is it a military ladder sight, or a "civilian" one in a conventional dovetail? How do you adjust it?

You still have to have a base to put the rings on. The side mount will allow rounds going in and out more clearance as it attaches on the side of the action and cantilevers over the opening instead of mounting directly on the top and interfering with loading and ejection. You may be able to find a two-piece base that mounts directly, but that is a gunsmith only installation as the screws on both pieces have to line up perfectly with each other as well as the axis of the bore.

[257 ROB]

It is a ladder sight.

[versifier]

Depending on the width of the sight, you may be able to get a scout mount that will fit on and pin in place of the current sight. B-Square makes them for Mausers, and there is a good chance one of them will fit.

[257 ROB]

Do you know where I could get one of these and how much they will cost. And if you have to drill holes in the rifle then it is out, I just don't want to drill into such an old gun.

[versifier]

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1771&title=MAUSER%20CLASSIC%20MILITARY%20MOUNTS

I do not know if this will fit, but it's worth sending them an email with a complete description and/or photo of the rifle and good measurements of the rifle's sight base. They are generally very good about getting back to you within a couple of business days, and quite helpful when they have good information.

[257 ROB]

That looks like a mount that would work. What measurments should I take?

[versifier]

The width of the part of the rear sight that goes up and down, as close to the pivot pin as possible. The pin will be removed and the new base will be secured through the two holes with a new pin. (That way, you will still have all the original parts to reassemble later if you want to and not affect the rifle's collector value.) A caliper should be accurate enough. If the B-Square base is narrower, it can be shimmed with tiny washers. If it is too wide, it can be narrowed, but that obviously must be done very carefully. If the measurements are the same, or near the same, then you can do it. Get the specs for both 92 and 98 sights.

BTW, Burris also makes a scout scope, 2.75X, a little bit less expensive than the Leupold.

[257 ROB]

I would like a scope with a little more power like maybe a 6x.

[versifier]

I hear that, you will have to check out handgun scopes then.

[257 ROB]

Do you know of any good handgun scopes at resonable prices? That is the reason I haven't been using the 6.5x55, I just didn't feel confident in my shots. If I have to use it this year for elk then I'll have to put in a lot of range time.

[versifier]

You wanted 6X, so that eliminates Leupold (they only go to 4X). Bushnell makes a 2-6X Trophy Pistol ($190), Burris makes a 2-7X ($380) and a 3-12X AO ($400), Simmons make a 2-6X ($150), Weaver makes a 2.5-8X Classic Pistol ($210), T/C makes Recoil Proofs in 2.5-7X ($270-310) and 3-9X ($290). There are others, but these are ones I've actually seen and looked through to check out or used myself. For what you are looking for, and IF you can get the mount that fits, I think I would go with the Weaver 2.5-8X or the T/C 3-9X for the money. Burris makes the best handguns scopes, but you do have to pay for them. I don't personally like Bushnell - I have had several of their rifle scopes and have had trouble getting them adjusted correctly for my eye, but I have friends who love theirs. Nothing bad to say about Simmons, it would do the job. I have no idea what they sell for in Canada.

[257 ROB]

simmons is pretty cheap here I will look at them.


Thanks

[257 ROB]

I just found out that the shots on elk will be 200yds and under so i don't need a scope thnks for all of the info you have been a great help.

[257 ROB]

I was out on the weekend and shot a few gophers well over 250 yds with my 223 and I think we have found a load for it. One shot was at least 400yds and it just exploded, didn't get a chance to take the 6.5x55 but wanted too.