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Have been loading 4.0 gr. of titegroup behind a rainier 200 gr. P RN with COL at 1.250" & 1/32" taper crimp. Using a progressive press so the COL can vary from 1.250 to 1.251. Shooting a 1911 A1 factory stock pistol. Mild recoil and seems accurate. Used a HAMMR to get the horizontal sighted in at 25 yds. Set the rear adjustable Bomar-type sight up 23 clicks from bottom for this load. Any suggestions to better help overcome vertical stringing? Wanting more consistency on target at 50 feet. :)
Welcome to the forum.
First off, I would ask if it is the gun or the shooter? I am assuming this already occurred to you and you have tried resting it and evaluated your stance, grip, etc., to eliminate the shooter from the equation as much as possible. The same thing has happened to me with an isosceles stance and light loads. (Arms are locked straight so the "wobble" happens vertically.) It has disappeared when firing hotter self defense or hunting loads.
That small a variance in OAL (or COL if you prefer) isn't the cause. Factory ammo has more variation than that.
Stringing (as opposed to patterns like a shotgun :) ) is generally a sign of a good shooter and a load that needs a bit of tweaking up or down. Some guns shooting cast boolits exhibit a change in the shape of groups as you move on up the charge table. It is more pronounced with rifles, but it can and does happen with handguns also. They start with stringing one way, go through the sweet spot where the groups tighten up, then string the other way. According to my Sierra manual, you are below minimum charge for a jacketed bullet, which I translate to mean at a reasonable starting load for lead. That leaves you with only one direction to go in, so I would up your charges incrementally as you would to test any other load and see what happens until the groups shrink up. If that doesn't help, try a little slower powder like Unique. IME though, fast burning powders like Titegroup and especially BEYE are very good performers for really light loads, so I wouldn't think you'd have to do more than play with your charge weights a little to cure it. Let us know how it works out so we all can learn from it, too.
Thank you for your suggestions Versifier. Yes, have rested the gun on a sand bag. A rigid two-hand hold gives better results. The gun is clearly better than me.
I've tried loads as light as 3.5 gr. of titegroup and they cycle okay but do not hold a decent pattern. It has been 85-90 degrees F. lately. The gun is a stock springfield with a 5" barrel. Has a Bomar-type rear sight, so can at least adjust it vertically for point of aim. The bullets are 200 grain plated RN. They have .004 of copper plating that covers the whole bullet. And they are soft lead. The base of the bullet is concave to better seal.
Someone suggested to coat the inside of the barrel with Slick 50 pure petroleum as the heat from firing will cause it to eventually fill in the metal pores, as it does with engine cylinders and rings, and thereby reduce friction. And will also cut cleaning time in half. The slick 50 was in a kit for $16.95, so I ended up getting a bottle of Gunk motormedic oil treatment (cheaper). I looks the same as slick 50 and think is probably a competitor.
I've lately worked up loads 4.0 gr., 4.1 and 4.3 gr. of titegroup. I like the light recoil of the 4.0 loads the best but may have to try 4.3 again.
Charles E. Petty, who writes for gun magazines, uses 4.0 gr. of titegroup behind a 200 gr. lswc for plinking.
:?: Is the copper plating on the rainiers going to offer less friction in the barrel than lead?
Have a wilson combat muzzle brake as the front barrel bushing and two-piece guide rod they recommend to go with it. Don't think this does all that much for reducing recoil with these loads but it adds some extra weight up front and changes the point of balance a bit forward which I like. My hands are not heavily built so have put on the aluma grip extra slim grips to get a better hold with a one-hand grip. Have watched Rob Leatham's dvd "shooter ready" from blue press (dillon company) and trying to do what he says for one-handed shooting. The goal is to become consistent at 50 feet. Shooting more of a tight cluster instead of a broader and more vertical pattern am getting now.
Will try to get back to post results and/or more questions when do more checks with these loads.
Thanks again. :)
I've used 4.4 and 4.7gr under LEE's unsized 200-RF (.453+), cast from wheelweight and tumble lubed; oal 1.10.
4.7gr has been more rewarding and I settled on it; it might not be mild but I found that, with .45 1911s, sharper recoil improves my grip attention and groups.
kg
shadeecat I wouldn't use slick 50 on my wheel barrow. A few years back my brother wworked for Esso Oil (Exxon) and they had the brain wave to put it in everything with oil on 4 drilling rigs. Well with in 6 months those four rigs that used it anything they had put slick 50 in had been replaced due to oil break down.
Next came the law suits, then I don't know what all come out of it but that was a multi million dollars screwup.
Ken.
I am not positive, but I frankly doubt that .004 of copper plate on top of those super soft boolits would have much effect on the friction coefficient. I suspect that a harder boolit with a little larger diameter would give you better results, too. But, only change one thing at a time when experimenting or you can not know which variable is responsible for different results. Start with increasing the charge. I know nothing about Slick50 or similar additives, but I do know this: the only thing that makes for difficult cleaning in a relatively new barrel - or an older one - is leading. Any barrel needs to be broken in by shooting a few hundred rounds through it (less with jacketed, more with lead). It takes about 30 seconds to clean the barrel of a pistol once it is broken in. IMO anything that makes claims like that I would take with a grain of salt, and in this case, maybe a shakerful.
Technically a firearm is an expendable piston internal combustion engine.
However the analogy pretty much stops there.
Using Slick 50 or any other wonder treatment on a motor vehicle engine may be beneficial to that engine but most certainly NOT on modern firearms.
However, if you ever start using bullets made of 4140 steel in a smoothbore barrel then perhaps Slick 50 might become more appropriate.
But until that day, remember this, the cylinders in a big block Chevy ARE NOT RIFLED. And pistons are not made of lead.
Vertical stringing in offhand shooting is caused by breaking the wrist up and or down. If the stringing is the area of point of aim and lower then it could also be pushing firward are the trigger breaks or you're drooping your head slightly.
Try blackening or colouring your front sight to make it easier to see. It seems that you are keeping the front sight centered in the rear but you may not be able to discern the top edge of your front sight. And it you don't know exactly where the top of your front sight is you'll never get a consistent sight picture.
I have found , to the detrement of the firearm, my wallet and accuracy that useing any type of oil other than a very light machine oil[such as a sewing machine oil] or oil specificily labled "Gun oil" for cleaning and/or luberecating is definately a No-No.
Bluesbear nailed it. If we were machines our sport would be boring but we aren't and that is where the fun begins. If the pistol is capable then you have to look at the shooter and the loadings. I shoot 200 gr. LSWC over 5.3 gr of Win 231 with as good a result as I am cpable of. Others may have better loads.
Take Care
Bob
top shooters use bullseye at 3.5 gr with 180 or 200 gr swc. I shot compitition for many yrs. never was great shooter but took trophys in my class.I use 700x and 3.5 gr,with 200 gr LSWC.at 50 ft you should be able to keep in 1" with one hand never really shot two handed.NRA target is one handed.:fighting68:
I used some light sewing machine oil on some M1 Carbines that were stored in an unheated armory when I was an instructor with the Bureau of Prisons. Six months later, it had all varnished on the metal. Heck of time scrubbing it off. I using an oil, make sure it is a good quality, "gun oil," that is polarized, like Rem Oil. They way, it won't varnish.
From what I have heard (and I'm willing to be corrected by someone in the know) the Military shooters are bumping this load up to 3.9 gr of Bullseye using the reasoning that the faster velocity gets the "Boolit" out of the barrel faster and making 'follow up' less of a factor. Additionally the 3.5 load was "the Sandard" when guys were shooting with Irons, now with Optics the increased charge is the 'norm'Quote:
Originally Posted by WILDCATT