New Here from georgia

Hello all. I found this site while searching for a scope to outfit a rifle. I Goggled a scope and it pointed me to the swap and sell forum. I read all the posts and stickys about the min post count and some of the trouble you have had in the past with folks trying to get over on members. I read a few more of the general posts and some of the reviews and decided to stick around and see what I can learn. I have been shooting for 45 years, I am a gunsmith and build custom rifles for hunting. I shoot CF benchrest and have been reloading for ~20 years. I think I would like to learn some more about casting boolits and this looks like a good place to start. I shoot ICORE matches and bowling pin shoots using mostly a 625 smith. I just got a progressive press for 45 acp and i am shooting the 625 a lot more than i thought I would so I need to learn what it is going to take to make some 230 grain slugs that won't break the bank and will still knock a pin over.

PS I usually can be found on the GON forum under the same user name as this one. stevetarget. Check out our forum when you have time. Its usually interesting to say the least. http://forum.gon.com/index.php

Welcome to Gunloads. Your input and experience will be very welcome here.

I shoot a lot of 45ACP and my semis all like the Lee 6cav #452 228 1R. You might also like the TL452 230 TC. The shape doesn't matter so much with a revolver as there are no feeding issues, but as you know, every gun has its favorite bullets. You can get Lee 2cavs inexpensively - there are four choices - to find out which one shoots best, then get the 6cav version for production. (They are also much better made than the 2cavs). I use an alloy of 1/2 wheel weights/ 1/2 pure lead and tumble lube with a push through sizer.

stevetarget welcome to the forum.
Ken.

welcome
jlb300

Howdy!

Welcome Steve!

The 625 has a reputation for tight chambers so I would stay with non-TL designs in case you need to resize them.
You can still tumble lube bullets with regular lube grooves.

Versifier, how do you tumble lube exactly? It works fine in autoloaders but I've had dreadful results in revolvers, following LEE's how-to.

kg

I don't follow Lee's How-To.

There are two different lubes I use.

One is White Lightning, a chain lube for mountain bikes - it is neat, dries quickly and completely, and I use it for RNPB handgun bullets. It is expensive compared to LLA, but it's much less messy, especially for carry loads.

The other is LLA, but I dilute it with 10-15% mineral spirits, and I hand dip my rifle bullets up to the top driving band and stand them on baker's parchment paper to dry. This leaves the noses clean, they get adequate coating, and they dry much faster. I will also tumble shorter bullets I can't get a good grip on with the same diluted lube.

It is very important to do them in a container with as round a bottom as you can find (RubberMaid #1's work great). Swirl them, don't shake them, and you don't need a lot of either lube. Unlike with hard lubes, the lube grooves do not need to be filled, there just needs to be a light coating. Some casters relube them after sizing, but I have not seen a significant difference in accuracy or barrel leading between those that have gotten the post-sizing coating and those that only got one coat pre-sizing. Don't let that stop you from experimenting, though, you might find it makes a positive difference in one or more of your guns.

There is no reason you can't size a TL design bullet, and you can even run them through a conventional sizer, though you may need to use a heater turned up high to get the lube to flow around them. Or you could tumble lube them and run them through your conventional sizer dry. Still, they are most easily push-through sized, and all my TL bullets for both handguns and rifles get done that way with good results.

With all of the added variables when cast bullets are being used, we have so little truly scientific research into the parameters that I would not be surprised if black magic may be somehow involved in the process at times. If you get better results when you wear your lucky hat and dance a jig clockwise while the sprue hardens, then I will make no judgement beyond noting it as an interesting observation. :) Me, I like to curse my moulds in Russian when they aren't working properly so they won't understand me and take it personally.

I am very reluctant about more experimenting with LLA in revolvers :mrgreen:... I varied diameters, coating, powders, speed in several guns and called it quit.

With home brewed standard lubes, I even stopped using bore brushes... I'd rather spend the time hand lubing than scrubbing :happy36:.

An other point is that each time a shooter told me it "worked real good" and I had an opportunity to check his barrel, I wouldn't even use the word "work" myself... Toney was the first one to make me think I had been missing something, but we didn't have the opportunity to exchange about it...

kg

I have used it in everything from light wadcutter loads in .38spec to hot heavy hunting loads in .357mag (GC's, PB's 140-200gr, TL and conventional designs, many thousands of rounds). Powders have been UNQ, BEYE, 2400, BDOT. I also use it in mid-range loads for a friend's .44mag with UNQ, but with less than 1000 rounds that isn't exactly extensive experience. Still, there has been no leading in his revolver and I've never had leading problems in any of the revolvers I've shot them through. Throat size problems have caused serious accuracy problems in several revolvers, but even in those, there was no appreciable barrel leading. While I am not necessarily the most motivated to keep all my guns squeaky clean, I do not tolerate accuracy problems, and keep an eye open for lead fouling with any new load/bullet/alloy/gun. The only times I have ever had serious leading in any revolvers was when trying commercially cast (soft & undersized) bullets. That is why I will always advise against using them when asked.

As far as I am concerned, the only downside to LLA is the mess potential, which is minimized by diluting it a tad bit so that it can dry quicker and more completely. It takes longer to dry in hot and humid weather, and also when the shop is below freezing. Then I am likely to switch to WLL if I didn't have the foresight to prepare a large stock of bullets when the weather was more amenable. I won't use LLA on carry or hunting/carry loads as dust & debris will tend to stick to it in handling and holster carry, but it has nothing to do with poor performance, accuracy, or leading issues. Some get around this by coating with powdered mica, but I haven't bothered after a few experiments to see if it would work. (It did.)

I did use a conventional sizer (RCBS) with a heater for the first few years, until I accidentally left the heater on and had to spend the next several days carefully removing lube with a putty knife from a maple floor I had just put down. That was right around when I discovered LLA, and as soon as I was sure that it and push-through sizing would work for both my handguns and rifles, I sold the conventional setup, bought a new rifle with the money, and still had cash left over for other supplies. That was somewhere around thirty years ago.

FWIW, every caster seems to have his/her favorite lube, and some even have several that they use for different shooting requirements. I have seen two casters with pretty much identical setups have very different results with the same lube. We are getting back to the black magic element here. One friend wears a little beanie cap with a helicopter blade when things start happening that he can't explain. Maybe it helps, or maybe it just makes him feel less helpless in the face of the unexplainable. :mrgreen: I have yet to feel limited in any way by LLA in revolvers, pistols, or rifles, and what it is that I do (or don't do) that gives me such good results I am not sure, but whatever it is, it works.

The only time in all the years I have been using LLA that I got excessive leading in any of my guns with my own bullets was trying hunting bullets in my .308 bolt action. I had printed out two charts of charge tables, one for jacketed, and one for the cast that I wanted to experiment with. (I had been loading cast in .30-30's for many years and after joining the CB board, decided it was time to experiment with them in my "serious" rifles.) I got the two pages of data confused and loaded up a batch of 180 gr with the jacketed data. On target #1, the first two shots were touching, third 4" out, fourth 12" out, the rest made patterns that would have been unacceptable for buckshot. I was shooting at 100yds, peep sights, no spotting scope. I shot (at) four targets for what I hoped would be four 5shot groups, so I didn't realize there was a problem until I walked out to get the targets. I figured the MV was around 2500fps (now I can laugh about it), and IIRC it took more than three hours to get the barrel clean. RIG solvent is a great help for that. It has also served me well when I or others have been tempted to use cheap commercial cast to "save" time or money. Note that this was not the fault of LLA, merely my own stupidity. I know now that I might even have gotten away with it if I had used a hard lino target alloy instead of ACWW hunting bullets, but since then I have never been tempted to push the velocity that high with anything .30 cal but 117 soupcans.

I can't see how there could be a problem with LLA at the velocities and pressures generated in revolvers, but I accept the word of honest folks when they tell me they have troubles with it. Logic only goes so far, and when you are talking cast, it sometimes doesn't go even that far. Maybe one of the reasons the hobby has so fascinated me for so long is the element of mystery in every mould and every firearm.