7 mm Rem Mag question

[Bmac]

I have been shooting a 7mm Rem Mag for 25 years and have noted a problem. This calibre tends to shoot through deer size game and not put them down immediately.
i.e. 140 gr Nosler ballistic tip bullet at approx 3200 fps hit a 2 point muley at 192 yards in the chest broadside. He stood for 30 seconds. I could tell he had a lethal hit and he wasn't moving so I watched. He finally went down. The hole was clear through the chest with an exit hole of 4". I have spoken to different people out here and they say 7mm's tend to shoot through animals without putting them down immediately.
This year the bullet was the same but shooting 3100 fps. The deer was a good 4 point at 150 yards but it put him down on the shot. I slowed the velocity down a bit to do this.
I have used various bullets in 7mm with the same result of not putting them down but when I went to a slower velocity it anchored the deer. I know the body size of a 4 pt is bigger than a 2 but I wouldn't think it would make that much difference. Anyone have an opinion?

[versifier]

Welcome to the forum Bmac.

I am not a fan of magnum cartridges, but here in New England, 75 yards is a long shot. We have several members here who can give you their opinions on the 7mmMag specifically, but until they get around to posting, here is some food for thought.

When the bullet goes "right on through" at short range, no matter how much inertial energy it has, most of that energy exits with the bullet. A slower bullet that fully expands and leaves a good wound channel sheds more energy (in the form of hydrostatic shock) directly into the game animal, even if it exits.

From your description, it sounded like you experienced something in between those two extremes. You had one shot kills, good expansion, a large exit wound, and a relatively good blood trail, even though neither deer ran far (another big plus). I don't think 100fps made any real difference - many loads have more ES than that. I think the difference in the two is more likely explained by the wound channel severing more large blood vessels in one deer and causing more internal bleeding more quickly than in the other. Thirty seconds seems like an eternity through the scope, but it is still a pretty quick death for a deer. IME only a spine shot will poleaxe a deer every time consistently (and most hunters are incapable of that level of accuracy beyond 100yds). "Boiler room" shots kill, but sometimes take a few minutes. If the deer is spooked, it may have a lot of adrenalin (a powerful natural stimulant) in its system and try to head for the next county, while another may get hit, lay down, and die quickly. Bullet placement, total energy imparted into the game, and whether or not the deer is panicked all are factors in the equation of how quickly they go down, and even then, every deer is a little different.

For a bit of perspective, a bowhunter around here waits for at least a half hour after a good hit before following it up, unless he actually sees the deer go down. Arrows kill by blood loss, not hydrostatic shock, and an unspooked deer will usually walk twenty or thirty yards, then lay down and be dead in a few minutes. As long as you make a lethal shot and can recover your deer, you are doing your part as a hunter.

Back to magnums: I'm not implying this is you, but too many out there tend to look at magnum class cartridges as some kind of magic bullets. The fact is, they are not, and unless yardages are extreme, they are no real advantage. They are really loud, use powder inefficiently, burn out barrels quicker, recoil excessively, and they require a lot of practice to master. 95% of the people who come to our range with "the big boomers" will fire only two or three rounds, by which time they are flinching so badly they couldn't hit a pieplate at 50 yards. (I have never found four magnum cases in the brass bucket at one time.) Then they go out and gutshoot a deer and blame it on the rifle. We both know a round through the heart will kill better than one through the paunch whether it comes from a .243 or a .458 Mag.

Unlike me, you live where magnums actually make sense, where ranges can be extreme and the flatter shooting magnums give a real advantage. Still, for ranges of 250 yds or less, a 7-08 or a 7x57 is more than adequate for even really big deer. Think about what range your 7mm Mag bullet has to reach before it has slowed into the velocity range the other 7mm's perform at between 100-200 yards. At that range (300+ or so?) your bullet will impart most, if not all, of its remaining energy into the animal, and if the shot placement is good, the deer will go down. I would ask myself at this point: Do I practice enough to be able to take advantage of this extra range if and when a shot presents itself? Can I actually make an offhand shot at that range into the pieplate with my chosen rifle?

You have been shooting it for 25 years, so you are neither a novice nor a lightweight, and at this point should know instinctively before you touch the trigger where the shot will hit throughout the cartridge's working range. You know when you can make a good shot for a clean kill, and when you can't, and that is much more important than if it drops in its tracks or takes a minute or so to go down. You could switch to a smaller case or even load a heavier bullet, but why give up a rifle/load you know so well? If it works, don't fix it. You could try some Partitions or maybe some XBullets to get a little more expansion, but it's hard to argue with one shot kills.
Likewise, I know my .308 - I know when a shot is beyond my practical range (about 150yds) not the cartridge's practical range, but MINE, using the peep sight that's on it. And, as most shots around here are at 50yards or less, I don't need the extra 100yds that a scope would give me. Most of my offhand practice is between 50-100yds, and then out to 150 as deer season approaches.

[Bmac]

I appreciate your reply. I agree with what you have said. Our shots in this area of the country can be extreme. I have shot an elk at 400 yds with a dead rest. I have tried to make a load that I could use for deer and elk. 160 gr Nosler partition at 3100 fps. It also shot through an elk at 310 yds. The elk ran 20 yards and piled up. This load still shoots through deer and leaves them standing for a few seconds.
I guess my real problem is that I have seen 243's put down a deer on the spot with the same hit I make with a 7mm Mag where the deer will go a ways and die. I have not had a deer go over 20-30 yards before going down for good. I have not wounded an animal in 10 years that has gotten away so I'm doing alright.
I was just wondering why the smaller calibre rifles put them down quicker when I can reload the same velocities with bigger bullets in my 7mm.

[versifier]

Again, I think it's a combination of the smaller diameter bullet at a lower velocity that doesn't usually exit transferring all of its energy to the target, instead of passing through it without slowing down very much. I have often observed the same thing with a .30-30 opposed to a .30-06. A broadside shot at a reasonable range out of an -06 with a 150 or 165gr bullet goes right on through, unless it hits some bone, while the .30-30 with a flat nosed 150 or 170gr bullet at much slower speed hits in the same place, doesn't exit, and the deer is DRT. It may in this case have also to do with the wide meplat acting as an aid in slowing/transfering inertial energy to the target.

If I'm learning anything from getting into casting, it is that you don't need velocity within 150yds. A big, slow boolit with a flat nose does the trick. That doesn't help you much, though, at long range. Maybe switching to something like a Sierra 170gr GameKing SBT, or Nosler Partitions in 160 or 175gr would expand better, get more energy into the target, and slow the bullet down more on its way through. The trajectory would not be as flat and you'd have to compensate for that way out there, but it might have a positive effect.

[Bmac]

Thank you, that makes sense. Bmac

[Tom W.]

I don't have a lot of experience with my 7mm Rem Mag, but the two shots that I took on deer in the last two seasons dropped the deer in it's tracks. The first was a shot with the deer facing me at about 150 yards across a field. The bullet was a 140 grain Sierra GameKing and being a frontal shot, it never exited. Last season was a broadside shot with a 150 grain Nosler C/T bullet at about 100 yards. I don't know what happened, but I suspect that the bullet hit a bone and exited on the same side of the deer, as there were two holes on one side and nothing on the other. I was very surprised, as I expected a huge hole on the off side.