Well, ****. Can't believe ATK would stab us in the back.

[leftiye]

Perzaktly, Double bubble!

[snuffy]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403920

ATK wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want a cheaper source of brass to load their contract obligation at the lake city plant, which is government owned, operated by them. Whoever is in charge at LC probably has orders to reduce cost/increase profits, simply follow the money trail.

ATK owns Speer, CCI, RCBS, and Federal all under the blount umbrella.

It's going to take a hellofalota pressure to get this changed. Perhaps if the two Montana Senators Baucus and Tester were to start yelling at ATK we would get some action.

http://www.ammoland.com/tag/atk/

[TCLouis]

That was the same BS statement from ATK in today's "Bullet Points" from NSSF.

Sounds like media/lawyer BS drivel to cover what they are really doing.

[snuffy]

Here's where to look for all of what they do;

http://www.atk.com/corporateoverview...amentgroup.asp

Also, in that URL, there's this list of companies they own, if you feel better by NOT buying anything from them.

Major Products and Programs — Commercial

* Federal Premium and Estate Cartridge ammunition
* CCI, Speer, Lawman, and Blazer ammunition
* Gunslick, Outers and Shooters Ridge gun care and shooting accessories
* RCBS reloading equipment
* Champion clay targets
* Weaver mounting systems
* Alliant Powder and gun powders for sporting re-loaders and ammunition manufacturers
* Eagle Industries law enforcement tactical accessories

[DWM]

Here is the link from bullets points

http://campaign.constantcontact.com/...fP75KemET2s%3D

as you can read : As a service to our military customers, we routinely handle demil operations for various munitions and respond to requests from military installations for reclamation and recycling of military items. Each contract is awarded through the military installation's procurement process
It's a service and they recycle the brass... OK all the demill companies can do the same??

Daniel

[mike in co]

It's a service and they recycle the brass... OK all the demill companies can do the same??

Daniel

sorry just politcal correct bs.....again its the bottom line. they are buying cheap, selling essentially to themselves and COSTING THE TAXPAYERS MONEY.

mike in co

[7of7]

"ATK fully supports the provision passed by Congress last year to ensure that demilitarized spent brass casings remain available for civilian use."

So they Demil the cases... doesn't that render them useless as far as reloading? I am sure the only difference between military brass and civilian brass is the crimped in primer.... I highly doubt that they are swaging the primer pockets for us...
This statement is very ambiguous.. and really doens't say anything. Yes the brass can be sold for civilian use, however, they have made it unsuitable for reloading... but, it can be used by the civilian market...(if they can melt it down and make new casings from it)

[mike in co]

"ATK fully supports the provision passed by Congress last year to ensure that demilitarized spent brass casings remain available for civilian use."

So they Demil the cases... doesn't that render them useless as far as reloading? I am sure the only difference between military brass and civilian brass is the crimped in primer.... I highly doubt that they are swaging the primer pockets for us...
This statement is very ambiguous.. and really doens't say anything. Yes the brass can be sold for civilian use, however, they have made it unsuitable for reloading... but, it can be used by the civilian market...(if they can melt it down and make new casings from it)

that is not quite what they are saying.

demil is not destroyed....just aproved for sale/civilian use. demil'd guns are made unusable, but the brass is just cases or pulled ammo..where the bullet, case and powder were sold in auction. i believe that powder is no longer sold.

they are saying its ok to sell at auctions, but we are still gonna steal( as in not pay market price for cartridge brass) as much brass as we can.

mike in co

[BeeMan]

Email sent to ATK:

Please forward this to whom it may concern, so that I
may receive a timely reply as noted below.

I am a concerned handloader who has repeatedly
purchased RCBS, Speer, CCI, Federal, and Alliant
reloading products. I just learned that elements
within ATK may have gone against the spirit of an
agreement to end the destruction of military surplus
brass. This brass historically been used available
as a component by many hand loaders, allowing them to
reallocate limited funds to procure additional tools
and components from ATK companies.

I have purchases pending for several reloading tools
and components. I would seeking clarification beyond
the general statement linked below. I need to know
that ATK is in no way violating the letter or spirit
of last year's agreement to re-instate the
availability of DOD surplus brass. Citizens and
companies who use this resource for legitimate
reloading and whose tax dollars paid for the original
purchase of the brass should expect nothing less.

http://www.atk.com/ContactUs/contactus_corporate.asp

I will be purchasing in early April and my sources
will be based significantly on ATK's response to this
email. I will also be posting this email and any
response from ATK in an online forum frequented by
many experienced hand loaders. I look forward to
this posting being favorable to both ATK and the
supporters of an industry which delivers revenue to ATK.

Respectfully,
xxx

Response received the next day:

Dear valued customer:

Thank you for bringing the scrap brass program information to our attention.

ATK is a strong supporter of our armed forces, the shooting sports industry, second amendment rights and all of our customers who choose to reload ammunition. In fact, ATK is a leader in the reloading market. A dated brochure and presentation have caused confusion in the marketplace and do not reflect the views of our company and will be immediately withdrawn. As a service to our military customers, we routinely handle demil operations for various munitions and respond to requests from military installations for reclamation and recycling of military items. Each contract is awarded through the military installation’s procurement process. The installations receive fair value for the brass.

ATK fully supports the provision passed by Congress last year to ensure that demilitarized spent brass casings remain available for civilian use.

We appreciate your support of our industry.

With a vague answer like this, I guess I'll be sourcing powders, primers, etc from companies not held by ATK. Doubt ATK will notice, but it is my choice in a free market. For the record I'll send this to a few ATK companies who will lose sales.

BeeMan

[mike in co]

Email sent to ATK:

Please forward this to whom it may concern, so that I
may receive a timely reply as noted below.

I am a concerned handloader who has repeatedly
purchased RCBS, Speer, CCI, Federal, and Alliant
reloading products. I just learned that elements
within ATK may have gone against the spirit of an
agreement to end the destruction of military surplus
brass. This brass historically been used available
as a component by many hand loaders, allowing them to
reallocate limited funds to procure additional tools
and components from ATK companies.

I have purchases pending for several reloading tools
and components. I would seeking clarification beyond
the general statement linked below. I need to know
that ATK is in no way violating the letter or spirit
of last year's agreement to re-instate the
availability of DOD surplus brass. Citizens and
companies who use this resource for legitimate
reloading and whose tax dollars paid for the original
purchase of the brass should expect nothing less.

http://www.atk.com/ContactUs/contactus_corporate.asp

I will be purchasing in early April and my sources
will be based significantly on ATK's response to this
email. I will also be posting this email and any
response from ATK in an online forum frequented by
many experienced hand loaders. I look forward to
this posting being favorable to both ATK and the
supporters of an industry which delivers revenue to ATK.

Respectfully,
xxx

Response received the next day:

Dear valued customer:

Thank you for bringing the scrap brass program information to our attention.

ATK is a strong supporter of our armed forces, the shooting sports industry, second amendment rights and all of our customers who choose to reload ammunition. In fact, ATK is a leader in the reloading market. A dated brochure and presentation have caused confusion in the marketplace and do not reflect the views of our company and will be immediately withdrawn. As a service to our military customers, we routinely handle demil operations for various munitions and respond to requests from military installations for reclamation and recycling of military items. Each contract is awarded through the military installation’s procurement process. The installations receive fair value for the brass.

ATK fully supports the provision passed by Congress last year to ensure that demilitarized spent brass casings remain available for civilian use.

We appreciate your support of our industry.

With a vague answer like this, I guess I'll be sourcing powders, primers, etc from companies not held by ATK. Doubt ATK will notice, but it is my choice in a free market. For the record I'll send this to a few ATK companies who will lose sales.

BeeMan

i agree...they are doing what is good for thier bottom linetoday, wiht no view of the future.
you need to understand that this is not about taking some brass out of circulation. some brass is still sold atr auction, but what atk is doping amounts to STEALING MONEY FROM THE TAXPAYERS. they are not paying market price for carteidge brass..they are stealing from you and me.

please everyone when you email them THIS IS ABOUT MONEY!
IT IS NOT ABOUT BRASS OUT OF CIRCULATION.
AS IN ALL THINGS WHEN YOU GET TO THE END
IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY!

mike in co

[PatMarlin]

Makes companies like good ol' LEE Precision look pretty good don't it?

Support them.

[fatnhappy]

No, it is not an "end run" around the previous action to stop the selling of military brass to the public. It is just ATK's strategy to get cheaper brass stock for their plant. The consequences may be less military brass for reloaders and we as reloaders may not like it but it is not some kind of conspiracy to to stop military brass sells to the public. No different than the battery companies cornering the market on used wheel weights for use in new batteries. Profit strategy is the driving force. The real question is whether the base commanders are acting in compliance of DOD directives.

Beyond that it's also a strategic move by ATK to drive up brass sales in its civilian product line, Federal. Absent milsurp brass, reloaders will have to purchase their brass from civilian sources.

[mike in co]

Beyond that it's also a strategic move by ATK to drive up brass sales in its civilian product line, Federal. Absent milsurp brass, reloaders will have to purchase their brass from civilian sources.

no. this is not true. there is still lots of brass for sale.
again folks this is not the issue
the issue is MONEY NOT ANYTHING ELSE.

atk is paying sup par rates and the money is not going to the taxpayers that originally paid for the brass.

it is about the moneyPERIOD