What future WSM's ?

[Oldbushman]

Just a idle thought that I thought I'd throw around . Will the WSM range of rounds take hold & stand the test of time or will they be a flash in the pan & disapear into the semi obsolite range of rounds in favor of their traditional counter parts?


Dave

[versifier]

I think/hope they're a passing fad for a number of reasons. They are designed to give magnum capabilities to a short, light action. While there will always be a certain segment of the shooting fraternity that likes the abuse, the recoil levels are unpleasant. The -06 recoil is more than most shooters I know consider fun, unless it's in a heavy Garand or shooting light or cast loads. You really don't want to head down to the range with a few hundred rounds and a WSM to practice, the physical abuse is too much, no fun, leave it in the gun safe and grab a milsurp or something you can shoot a lot out of and not pay for it with a sore shoulder for the next few days. And while there are certainly individual exceptions, most I have met and talked to that have bought them are very unhappy with their generally poor (3-4 MOA out of the box) accuracy.

This seems, however, to be becoming the general rule with all new rifles. Pay $1000 (or more) for a brand new rifle that will barely pass the pie plate test, then either a trigger job or a replacement trigger, bed the action, float the barrel, maybe recrown it, then finally peep sight & front sight or base, rings, & scope...... It's just not right that a new rifle should need at least $500+ extra parts and work to get it shooting the way it should have been before it left the factory, only it wasn't.

[Coach Hunt]

Howdy,
Oh, I don't know Versifier. I can't think of any new cartridge series that has developed this much interest and work for gunsmiths since Roy Weatherby started with his 'dual radiused ventury' system years ago. Simply in terms of work for gunsmiths, I hope the trend continues. I for one get supurb accuracy from my dead stock model 70 in 7WSM. The recoil is managable now that it wears a new recoil pad... the original was horrid!!! I for one hope that it is not a passing trend, and perhaps they will last for a hundred years... like the grand ole ought six.

Coach

[Oldbushman]

Welcome to the site Coach ! You Gentlemen both make very valid points! I only buy actions these days & start from scratch & build a rifle round the action ,as I've found I get more bang for my Buck ( no pun intended ) It's true that the WSM's fall into the same catergory as the Weatherby Rounds did years ago & I suppose there is still a hard core group of devotees ,who swear by their Weatherby rifles & cartriges .I suppose only time will tell the future of the WSM


Dave

[kodiak1]

Don't mean to step on anyones toes but my personnel feelings on the short mags are they suck!!! A magnum is something big bold and powerful, and as we all know many of the magnums arn't but they have the name magnum it just seems like the short magnums are going backwards.
I was also under the impression that you needed a long slight or no taper case to get the most out of a cartridge but that theory has also been blowen away.
Maybe in time they will grow on me if they last.
Ken.

[Oldbushman]

Hell Ken don't worry 'bout treading on toes! That's why I started this post . To get diffrant opinions ,from shooters on something New in the world of shooting It opens a campfire discussion .

Dave

[303carbine]

Hi again Dave, I like the old designs like the .303, 30-06, 7x57, 8x57 etc. The wsm line may be ok for some but I see no advantage in it and its possible they will fade away and the oldies will still be here.More and more people here are "discovering " the .303 and I have converted a couple over to my favorite deer cartridge the 7x57 Mauser. Cheers from Canada, John

[Oldbushman]

G'day John . I always find it interesting that Rounds like the ought six ,7&8mm Mausers & of course the .303 re invent them selves! The next gerneration of shooters discover them & there is a rebirth of intrest in them ! This to me is a good thing as it encourages shooters to go back to basics & then progress on to bigger things as it were

Dave

[versifier]

The other big plus is that when they begin to load for them and buy the milsurps chambered for them, it encourages a greater interest in history. At least that of the first half of the 20th century, and that's a start. "I should have listened better in high school history" has lots of new shooters visiting libraries or more commonly now surfing the net to learn what they can. Those who remain ignorant of history doom themselves to repeat it. If nothing else, it helps one learn when to duck! I'm all for the old standbys.

[C1PNR]

I'm not really interested in most of the new WSM, RUM, etc., cartridges. About the only one that did catch my eye was the .325 WSM. Essentially just a modified 8 Mauser.

The real problem, as I read about it anyway, is that they just do not feed worth a hoot.

No, I've got my milsurps, and a few milsurp calibers in modern rifles, to keep me company as I wander about.

Nothing wrong with more work for the 'smiths, though.

[Deathwind]

So we have 7 mm,300 etc; in wsm but no 30-06 wsm (guess their scared to mess with the old girl eh.)

[Flyboy]

[QUOTE=versifier;812] You really don't want to head down to the range with a few hundred rounds and a WSM to practice, the physical abuse is too much, no fun, leave it in the gun safe And while there are certainly individual exceptions, most I have met and talked to that have bought them are very unhappy with their generally poor (3-4 MOA out of the box) accuracy.

QUOTE]

Sorry Versifier,
I for one couldn't disagree with you more.
For starters, I have not shot more than 60 rounds out of any bolt rifle at one sitting. (My AR 15 in .223 is another story !)
Also, both of my WSM's are sub-moa with 50% of the loads I try in them.
Lastly, the Win Laminated 270WSM at 81/2 pounds (with scope) is almost pleasant to shoot.

Just my 2 cents,
Al

[kodiak1]

You will find most of the time a the rifle that will shoot any load that is stuck in it doesn't have a whole bunch to do with the caliber but more to do with that particular Rifle.
Hell Flyboy yours sound like real solid guns that shoot good. Out of the 57 guns that I own as of today I have one and it is a 7 X 57 Mauser the first shot is deadly then after that you can't guess where this thing is going to hit next. I looked at the barrel lots of times to see if it was built by the LIGHTNING GUN COMPANY.
I also had a Remy 22-250 that wasn't worth bringing home.
My theory is it is the rifle and not the caliber or the bullet weight that make for a real good gun.
Ken.

[versifier]

Flyboy,
I'm glad to hear you've got a couple of good ones, and you live where the ranges can be long enough for a magnum to make sense. Here most deer, bear, and moose are taken at an average of 35yards, so they are serious overkill and they damage too much meat at short ranges. The guys that buy them around here generally are those that have to have the latest and biggest to show off. When they come to the range, I find they usually leave between one and five cases on the ground. Honestly, I think a lot of the inaccuracy I have witnessed may not be the rifles themselves, but rather the severe flinching on the shooters' part. I have fired a .300wsm (with a slip-on pad ) and I found it would keep 5 shots around two inches at 100yds, but it wasn't my idea of a fun rifle. That was the most accurate example that I have seen out of a dozen or so. No one who shoots them at our club also handloads, which (as you know) can, with patience, really show what a rifle is capable of, so the results I have seen have all been with factory ammo. And, none of the shooters I have met here are more than just casual shooters, so they do not get enough practice to be able to find what their rifles are capable of doing. That is what led me to the conclusion that their practical accuracy is dismal, and the potential accuracy remains largely unexplored territory.
If I lived somewhere that I might have to make a 300yard shot to fill a tag, I might be much more inclined toward the wsm's. The short, fat cases make good sense in the light of the success of the PPC and BR families of target cases, and in a year or two there might be some real progress made on the difficult feeding issues. For me though, they will remain a curiosity to read about, here I am mostly overgunned carrying my .308.

[Flyboy]

Flyboy,
can be long enough for a magnum to make sense. Here most deer, bear, and moose are taken at an average of 35yards, so they are serious overkill and they damage too much meat at short ranges. For me though, they will remain a curiosity to read about, here I am mostly overgunned carrying my .308.

The .308 is a very fine round and I think I could find a couple of hundred 'stick' owners to agree with us.
And yes, the last elk that I shot was over 300 yards away, and 4 walking miles from truck.
Deer, bear and moose at 35 yards ???
Can I come hunt at your place ?

Please ?

[spooksar]

I own a 270, 300, 325, short mags in 3 diferent makes of rifles Browning Ruger and Savage. They all feed flawlessy compared to the belted stuff, recoil is fairly mild and they shoot under 1 1/4 MOA groups. As a side note on recoil I regularly shoot a 375 RUM a 416 Rigby and a 470 double with out to many problems, 20 at a time.

[Matthew72]

One of my hunting partners just got rid of a Tika 300WSM cause it wouldn't shoot worth beans. I tend to think it was his scope or the anticipation of the recoil but he lost all faith in it after he missed two deer at less then 100 meters over the past two years. He went back to his rem700 ought six.

The Shorts are a fad right now, but as mags go, I can out shoot any of the guys at the range with either my .308, 30-06, or 7mm rem mag. It is really in the shooter not the gun for the most part. I have also found that a lot of guys like the mags because they feel that their shot does not have to be perfect when gunning for big game. I have killed elk at 300meters with both a .308 and the 30-06. Both are lethal at that range with good shot placement.

Finally, no I do not like putting 20 rounds through any of the 30 calibers. The 7mm is by far the worst, but I don't like working during hunting seasons either, Just something we have to do.

[Nebraska34]

I have a 270 WSM in a Tika T3. I really like the round. Not too much recoil, and sub MOA at 100 yards. The short action is nice. I am a big fan of the WSM and the WSSM's. New and interesting to me, maybe I am a sucker for the high performance rounds because I am trying to also get a rifle built in a 25 cal Lazeroni right now.

No disrespect to the old timers though. I have and love my 308, 30-06, 25-06, 243, 8mm. But also love my 204, 223 WSSM, 270 WSM etc. What can I say I am a fire arms junky as much or more than a hunting junky.

[GrovenLoader]

About a year ago I sold my Ruger M77 MKII 300 Win. Mag. to a guy at a gun show for $275. That's how much I thought of that rifle! I had it for about five years and shot it a lot and worked up countless loads in an effort to get "some" accuracy out of it. I even bought a new Nikon scope in the hope that it was the scope. It wasn't. That was the only "major" gun I had at the time. I also was of the "who needs a WSM" crowd. Well............ About two months ago a trading buddy of mine offered up a basically brand new Savage Mod. 11 in 7MM WSM to me. I traded a 10/22 and an old 3 screw Ruger Single Six with only the mag. cylinder in it for the rifle. The rifle is one of those that comes with the scope attached as a package. Well, I shot it with factory Winchester ammo and was astonished at the accuracy! With factory ammo I actually had two holes touching at 100 yards, the other two were within an inch or so. I got dies to reload for my birthday and began to work up some loads when the scope went gunny sack. So for now I can only brag so much. After I get a new scope on it I'll see what I can get out of it. I noticed something strange though. After shooting a round and extracting it from the chamber the round is cool to the touch. I never noticed this before. I know the ones that are flung from my ARs are hot even after they've been on the ground a few seconds. Did I just not notice it before or is this some strange phenomenon with the WSMs?

[Robertbank]

Well I guess Dave I have a real hard time understanding how a 170 Gr .308 size bullet kills any better when shot out of a 30-06 vs the latest .308 SuoerShort Improved Teddy Rossevelt Magnum if the velocity difference at 100 yards in only a couple hundred fps.

I maybe corected but I think the old .303 Brit has killed more Moose in N.A. than any other cartridge on the planet, so too Black Bears. I would venture to say the cartridge has accounted for more game than any other cartridge including the much vaunted (with good reason) 30-06 world wide.

If all I could carry was anyone of the following centerfire cartridges I believe I would be good to go for anything on this continent. NOw a new rifle using a Mauser action chambered n .303 Brit would be some king of gun.

.303 Brit
.308 Win
.30-06
.30-30

At hunting ranges anyone of these will do nicely - well the 30-30might be a tad light but I love the cartridge.

As far as I am concerned the WSM are just another gimmic to sell something "new" in an over saturated rifle market.

Take Care

Bob