Load for Berry's 148g HBWC

[montanabc]

I recently bought a 250 box of Berry's 148g HBWC copper plated bullets. Having a hard time finding a load. Berry's states that (for accuracy) not to load to less than 800 mv, and to add .2 to .4g to any loads for lead bullets. According to the AA load tables, using AA-#2, if I add .2 to their starting load, I still don't reach recommended mv, and if I add .4 to starting load, I exceed what they recommend as max load. Can anyone direct me to load data for this particular bullet? I'm loading for a Ruger LCR.

[versifier]

Just use standard data and work up loads from start to hot until the groups tighten up. If there is a problem with accuracy, try a different powder. Despite what they say, load them like any other cast/swaged bullet. 99% or more of advertizing is fertilizer. Be aware that non-jacketed bullets have to be larger in diameter than their jacketed cousins. Try some Bullseye if you're not happy with AA#2 - it goes great with .38spec wadcutter loads in dozens of revolvers I've tried , and that includes little snubbies like the LCR. Many snubbies will shoot better double action - don't ask me why, but it's true.

If you try several different powders and still don't get decent accuracy, there are some diagnostic steps to go through. Not every revolver likes cast as it comes from the factory. There can be problems with the chamber throats (too small or all different sizes in the same cylinder), an undersized forcing cone, barrel constriction where it is threaded into the frame, etc., but don't borrow trouble yet. Give them a try first and see what happens.

[versifier]

Oh, and welcome to Gunloads!

[montanabc]

Thanks for the reply. I used AA-#5, 4g that had a mv rating of 807, thus complying with Berry's note to load to a min mv of 800. That is the MAX load listed in the AA table, so I guess I shouldn't increase it. They fire fine, but accuracy is terrible. At 20-25yds shots are all over (& off) the target. Here's what Bud, from Berry's said:

"I cannot tell you the exact pressures you will get - and the 800 FPS note is because you need to get our bullet to at least 800 FPS to stabilize it for best accuracy. Our bullet will perform up to 1200 FPS."

And...

"NOTE: Do not use the powder charges shown for lubed lead bullets with our copper plated bullets - our copper plated bullets have more friction drag than lubed lead bullets and require slightly more powder to stabilize for accuracy & to avoid sticking in the barrel. - You will need to increase the charge from .2 Gr. to .4 Gr. for the same velocities."

I want to load some light loads for my wife's first class at the range. Don't want her to be "put off" by too much recoil. Any suggestions? (The local Sportsman's Warehouse has Bullseye, but the only loads I can find list velocities at less than 800)

Thanks again.

Just use standard data and work up loads from start to hot until the groups tighten up. If there is a problem with accuracy, try a different powder. Despite what they say, load them like any other cast/swaged bullet. 99% or more of advertizing is fertilizer. Be aware that non-jacketed bullets have to be larger in diameter than their jacketed cousins. Try some Bullseye if you're not happy with AA#2 - it goes great with .38spec wadcutter loads in dozens of revolvers I've tried , and that includes little snubbies like the LCR. Many snubbies will shoot better double action - don't ask me why, but it's true.

If you try several different powders and still don't get decent accuracy, there are some diagnostic steps to go through. Not every revolver likes cast as it comes from the factory. There can be problems with the chamber throats (too small or all different sizes in the same cylinder), an undersized forcing cone, barrel constriction where it is threaded into the frame, etc., but don't borrow trouble yet. Give them a try first and see what happens.

[montanabc]

Oops, I'm probably not supposed to list specific loads with powder charges. Sorry if I violated protocol.

Thanks for the reply. I used AA-#5, 4g that had a mv rating of 807, thus complying with Berry's note to load to a min mv of 800. That is the MAX load listed in the AA table, so I guess I shouldn't increase it. They fire fine, but accuracy is terrible. At 20-25yds shots are all over (& off) the target. Here's what Bud, from Berry's said:

"I cannot tell you the exact pressures you will get - and the 800 FPS note is because you need to get our bullet to at least 800 FPS to stabilize it for best accuracy. Our bullet will perform up to 1200 FPS."

And...

"NOTE: Do not use the powder charges shown for lubed lead bullets with our copper plated bullets - our copper plated bullets have more friction drag than lubed lead bullets and require slightly more powder to stabilize for accuracy & to avoid sticking in the barrel. - You will need to increase the charge from .2 Gr. to .4 Gr. for the same velocities."

I want to load some light loads for my wife's first class at the range. Don't want her to be "put off" by too much recoil. Any suggestions? (The local Sportsman's Warehouse has Bullseye, but the only loads I can find list velocities at less than 800)

Thanks again.

[versifier]

There is no specific rule against posting charges here, especially if one is interested in opinions about the safety/advisability of a specific load. That said, in general the precise charge that my pistol likes with a certain bullet is unlikely to be the same that yours likes best, so beyond a suggestion of what powder to try, it's pretty much a waste of time.

Where it becomes problematic is when someone new to loading assumes it is safe to start at a posted or "pet" load instead of working it up from START in an attempt to save time and/or components. New loaders often don't realize that some guns can easily handle loads in excess of "book MAX", while others have their personal MAX at levels well below "book MAX". The only way to determine where your own gun's limits lie is to work up carefully from START. Case in point, I have a wonderful old 1917 Mauser in 8x57 that will blow primers above the halfway level on the charge table with a jacketed bullet. It will handle US factory loads, but is way into the red zone with hotter European ammo. Now it lives happily on a diet of light cast loads.

I would try the low end BEYE loads regardless of what Berry's recommends for three reasons. First, there is no info from them about what they used to come up with their numbers (revolver of unknown barrel length, Contender or other single shot, or Universal reciever) or what brand of cases and primers were used. All can effect pressure and velocity levels. Second, while it may help the bullet to obturate better at a higher pressure and stabilize sooner, the fact that they are IMO undersized for their hardness negates the possible advantage. I would start with the minimum charge for a cast/swaged (non-jacketed) bullet and work up. I would try it with several powders, since you have plenty of bullets to work with. Third, BEYE and wadcutters go together in a .38 like bread and butter, and have been a standard for target shooters for almost a century. The combination works well in almost every revolver I have tried it in over the past 35years.

I would also consider slugging the cylinder throats, barrel, and forcing cone to make sure the problem isn't the revolver. Many revolvers will shoot jacketed bullets without problems but will throw cast all over the place. A caliper (even a digital one) is not accurate enough to give you the numbers you need, you have to drive oversized lead slugs through and measure them with a mic. Throats should all be the same and not undersized (.357-360"), forcing cone should be at least .357", barrels can vary, but the groove diameter should not be of larger than the FC.

"Shotgun pattern" groups often a result of undersized bullets. If the revolver shoots jacketed loads accurately, then you are still left with two possible causes for the poor accuracy: either the bullets or the revolver itself. If you can get yourself some cast bullets sized .359" or .360" and it still won't group, then the revolver needs a quick trip to the gunsmith for re-throating (an easy and relatively inexpensive fix).