30-.06 questions

[SJL]

First time poster, so please bear with me if I inadvertently step on any toes.
I started reloading 2 years ago and have had some success. I read everything I could find on reloading for accuracy and most of what's out there only goes so far. ABC's, Nosler, LEE etc. I assume it's because the '06 properties are so well known at this point they're really beyond everyday discussion. Well, I don't know, so I'm asking.
To start, I'm shooting a Browning A-Bolt in .30-06, a composite stalker. I use Federal cases, Winchester primers, and Lee equipment and have been trying an assortment of bullets and powders. I can't get this rifle to group less than 2 in. I've got several questions I can't find answers to, so here goes. I have thick skin so any answers that start with hey dumb-ass are OK.

1. The Federal cases are holding up well for the most part. They are 20 gr heavier and more consistent than everything else I've tried. The only concern I've begun to encounter is that the primer pockets have begun to feel loose when installing a fresh primer by their 3rd reload. Is this a problem with Federal cases?
2. Why do Winchester cases seem to be the case of choice everywhere I look?
3. When I test new loads from the manuals, I load powder in 1gr increments from the min up to the max. Is 1gr too big an increment? Am I missing an accurate load by test firing new loads in 1gr increments?
4. I see that different bullet weights perform better using different powders with different burn rates for best accuracy. Is IMR4350 too slow for 150 gr bullets? Is H414 too fast for the 180's? What are the optimum bullet weights for Varget and H4831?
4.5 What powder do other A-Bolt shooter's like for 150gr and 180gr?
5. I believe I've been making a mistake using the LEE factory crimp die on Nosler and Hornady bullets without a cannelure. The groups are horrible, over 4 inches. Poke me in the eye if you can confirm this for me. I know I had better accuracy dead seating the A-Max's.
6. I can't figure out a good bullet seating depth on this A-Bolt. What seating depth have other A-bolt shooters had luck with? Currently using 3.34 OAL for testing.
7. If I use a chrony and by the grace of the almighty, find that this rifle is accurate with a specific weight bullet at a specific velocity, does that mean that other manufacturers' bullets of the same weight (length) need to fire at or near the same velocity to group accurately?

Thanks in advance,
SJL

[versifier]

Welcome to the forum SJL.
Buy a Sierra and/or a Speer manual, too. There's a lot more than just loads in them and they will answer most of the questions you'll come up with. But I'll answer what I can.

1. Primer pockets should not be loosening up by the fourth (or 20th) reload. You may have a poorly anealed lot of brass - it can happen with any kind, or you may be shooting loads that are too hot. Are your fired primers flattened or cratered? (Pressure signs).

2. As many swear by Winchester cases as swear at them. I have had good luck with rifle cases by all the big makers: Rem, Win, Fed, Norma, Mil. All will have bad lots of brass or manufacturing flaws occasionally. Luck of the draw I think. Others have differing opinions based on their experience, like with anything.

3. I'm assuming you are using a Lyman or Lee manual that lists a min and a max. Other manuals are set up by velocity for a given charge in their test rifle. It depends upon the powder in question. Sometimes .3grs will up your velocity by 100fps - then 1gr increments are way too big. Especially when you are shooting jacketed bullets and approaching max loads.

4. Those questions are ones that only your rifle can answer for you. The manufacturer of the rifle has nothing, or very little, to do with it. You can take a pair with consecutive serial numbers and dollars to donuts they will have different preferences in bullets and powders. Some like faster powders, some slower, and some prefer one brand or weight and brand of bullet over another. The reason why so many different powders are listed in charge tables is that the only way to find out is by actually trying them to see. Likewise why there are so many different brands and weights of bullets.

4.5. What works in other A-Bolts of the same chambering can at best only serve as a general guide. Your rate of twist has the greatest effect on the barrel's preferred weight of bullet, and even at that, different brands of bullets of the same weight can be very accurate or they can pattern like a shotgun. You can only find out by actually trying them with different powders. I wish there were an easy answer, but there really are no shortcuts. Sometimes you do luck out with the first or second choice of powder/bullet, sometimes you don't.

5. Again, it varies from barrel to barrel and rifle to rifle. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to crimp, for instance when there is considerable recoil generated. Other times, the neck tension is sufficient to hold the bullet in place and keep the round from telescoping. I FC all my hunting loads in .30-30, .308, and .30-06. But not all of the target loads.

6. There are two measurements here to consider in any bolt action rifle. First is the maximum length you can seat the bullet so that it almost (within .001-.002") touches the lands. This is the most accurate situation. But, when seated to that length, it may not function and feed from the magazine. So, the second measure is the maximum practical length you have to work with. It depends on the rifle, and differences can be model specific. Try it with a dummy cartridge the first few times. Seat the bullet as long as you can, try it in the action, and keep gradually decreasing its OAL until it will chamber. That's your maximum possible length. Measure it and write it down in your loading notes. Then see if it will feed from the magazine. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. If not, then keep reducing its length until it will. Then write that number down, too. Factory crimp the dummy and you will be able to set your seating die correctly in the future by using it instead of the hard way with a caliper and trial & error.

7. Not necessarily, but sometimes you will get lucky. At the same velocity, bullets of the same weight will have the same trajectory, so the bullet drop over distance would be about the same. They may (and most likely will) have different points of impact, and the group sizes may vary from a little to a lot. Again, the only way to tell is by actually trying them.

Some rifles seem to shoot everything well, others are very picky. Sadly, not every rifle is capable of the accuracy we would like. If you can get a 4" 5shot group at 100yds with a production hunting rifle, you are doing well, and have about the average you can expect. Everybody likes to claim MOA, but the truth is that damned few can really do it. Check out back issues of Gun Tests and see what today's production rifles are really capable of with factory ammo. It will be an eye opener. Often you can improve things with handloads, but that is not always an easy task. Most rifles I have worked up loads for over the years have taken at least three powders and five or six different bullets to approach their potential. Some have done it with the first few, and there have been several that I have given up on after dozens of powders and bullets. I hate to admit defeat, but it happens. On the other hand, there a a few in my safe that can do .5 and .3 MOA, if I do my part and it's a good day, so you never know.

[Tom W.]

Durn, Versifier, you beat me to most of the answers.


Other than that, I can say that my son has the same rifle, and it will shoot the 165gr. gamekings very well.

My Ruger #1 likes varget and 180 gr. bullets, but I had it rechambered to a 30/06 A.I. It still likes the loads that I had worked up before I sent it off.
I have some H414 that I'm going to load with 150 gr. bullers, but I haven't done so as of yet. The Varget load with the 180's does so well, although it is slow by some folks standards.

As to brass, my son likes Winchester and will discard Federal brass as a matter of course. I prefer Remington, but really have seen no difference in any of them for hunting purposes.

If I got a 4" group at 100 yards, I'd be looking for a different load. I can do better than that with my Encore pistol in 30/06. I won't say anything about the patterns I get with my Ruger Blackwawk in .45 Colt!

[SJL]

Versifier, Thanks, that was an entire manual worth of info. I'm starting to think that every answer in rifles only leads you to 2 more questions. Thanks again.
Bama, what's the reason your son throws away Federal cases? I used them for the simple reason that a neighbor of mine was on the Marine Corps Pistol team and I asked him who made the best factory ammo. He answered" Federal, without a doubt, Federal" So I have shot Federal factory almost exclusively, as a result I have a lot of that brass hanging around. With good reason I will switch. What primer does he prefer?

[versifier]

I'm starting to think that every answer in rifles only leads you to 2 more questions.

You got it!! That's what makes it so interesting.

[Tom W.]

I really can't say why my son doesn't like Federal brass. He just likes Winchester, or Weatherby brass for his .300 Weatherby Mag. We have both found out that Federal Match primers make a world of difference, especially in his long range target shooting. We like the Federal GM210M or GM215M, depending on the rifle.
I still have almost 1K 210 primers that I'll use in fireforming loads, and in my 30/30
but when they are gone, I'll go exclusively to the match primers.