Handi Rifle .223

[Tony Gable]

I have a handi rifle in a .223. It has about .240 to .250 free bore. I'm shooting 50 to 55g bullets of various makes and different powders and seating depths. I can get sub minutes of angle at 100 yards. Ok for rabbits and yotes but not good enough for squirrels at 200 to 250 yards. Does any one have any suggestions.
It is a damn sweet rifle to shoot and I really like it. Have a .243 barrel for it and can drive tacks all day long with the .243.

thanks,
Tony

.223 has a 1 in12 twist..

[Tony Gable]

I have a handi rifle in a .223. It has about .240 to .250 free bore. I'm shooting 50 to 55g bullets of various makes and different powders and seating depths. I can get sub minutes of angle at 100 yards. Ok for rabbits and yotes but not good enough for squirrels at 200 to 250 yards. Does any one have any suggestions.
It is a damn sweet rifle to shoot and I really like it. Have a .243 barrel for it and can drive tacks all day long with the .243.

thanks,
Tony

P.S. The rifle is a 1 in 12 twist.

[versifier]

Hi Tony,
Welcome to the forum.

While I am definitely not the one to get going on about HandiRifles , the .223 and I are old friends and maybe we can figure out what's up. The 50-55gr bullets you have chosen should be great for your twist rate, as proved by the good 100yd groups. But, as you have discovered, what gives you great groups at 100yds does not necessarily do so at longer ranges. 1 MOA @ 100yds translates to a tennis ball at 300yds, usually good enough to keep a pdog shooter happy. When you say "sub MOA", how sub? .5 MOA @ 100yds should potentially be getting you less than 2" @ 300yds, which ought to take care of head shots on even the red tree rats. The problem is finding a way to realize that potential.

A quarter inch of leade is an awfully big hurdle to try and overcome, but at least with a single shot you won't be limited to whatever length feeds from the magazine. You can go as long an OAL as the bullet's length will allow. That won't do much good with lighter bullets due to their short length, but they are generally not the best choices as the ranges get longer. In the other direction, at some point, your twist rate will limit the length of the bullet it can effectively stabilize. What that actual limit is, however, can only be determined by experimenting.

Just because 1in12 may prefer 50-55gr bullets, though, that doesn't mean you can't try a box of 60's and see what happens. You may get a pleasant surprise. The longer bullet will let you seat to a greater OAL and will tend to be more stable at longer ranges. Some rifles are extremely picky as to what they like at various ranges, sometimes preferring different weights, brands, or profiles at different distances. I would be looking at boattail designs if you aren't already.

You do not mention powders, so I do not know if you are using slow, medium, or fast from within the .223's appropriate range of choices. Sometimes burning rate can make a big difference as the ranges get longer, too, but again that depends upon the particular rifle in question. I would advise chosing one fast, one slow, and one right in the middle, like, for instance N130, AA2230, IMR4064. I just picked the numbers out of what was listed in the manual to illustrate my point. See where what you have fits into the chart and choose one or two others based on that. (My Contender carbine seems to like IMR4198 and RE7 with 55gr bullets, but it is only used out to 150-175yds or so as I go with a .22-250 for long range shooting.)

[Tony Gable]

Hi Versifier,

Thanks for the input. Sorry I didn't mention the powders. Ii've tried Varget (ok),
748 (excellent), benchmark(good), IMR3031(excellent),Re7(excellent),H335 (good).
I would have thought Varget to be a goood one but the groups opened up.

I use a Stoney Point oal Guage for the 4 calibers I load for. When I used it on the .223 I found the bullet was already out of the case before it touched the rifling. I tried seating the bullet .150 into the neck. Made a big difference but not what i had hoped for. I know the rule of thumb is bullet diameter deep, but with a single shot and a little caution it worked out Good.

As far as the fast, medium and slow powders can you be specific as possible. I have obout 18 different cans of powder including IMR4064. I think I'll try 60 grain
bullets. Just to bad you can't get them in 20 packs for experimenting. How would a 63 grain bullet do in this rifle? Almost forgot, .750 MOA

Thanks Alot,
Tony

Gun control is being able to hit your target.

[versifier]

Interesting that you mention it, Midway used to sell packages of varmint bullets of a certain weight, ten of each brand. I don't know if they still do.

When I have a chambering that is proving difficult, I look in the manual and pick powders at the beginning, middle, and end of the list. It sounds like you have covered that already. I have a few "go to" powders that I always try first, most notably IMR 3031 and RE7 for small and medium capacity cases. Both are very close in burning rate, and when one doesn't work, the other seldom does either, so then I look at powders with burning rates as different as possible to see what will happen. It's a roll of the dice which ones to try next, and as every rifle is different, my roll may not be too much help to you.

The problem you are facing is that you have a twist that will favor 50-55gr bullets with a throat (leade) that favors the longer, heavier bullets better stabilized with 1in8" to 1in10" twists. Sometimes the loading gods look with favor and let you load a bullet that won't necessarily do well on paper that shoots with passable accuracy. I am hoping it will work out that way for you. You have nothing to lose by trying it anyway.

That's one of the the reasons I prefer T/C's, but I admit they also screw up with regularity with twist to leade problems. The difference is that their barrels are all readily interchangable without factory fitting. My biggest problem with HandiRifles is their inconsistant heat treating of bearing surfaces - sometimes on the barrel, sometimes on the frame, and I reached the point where I refused to work on them many years ago. Too many work themselves loose too easily. But, many others do not. I have expounded ad nauseam on their negative points on all three GL forums, so I will spare you my usual diatribe. You can look it up if you want. In all fairness, in my experience, leade problems are not that common with H&R's, and neither are accuracy issues generally. Their barrels are impressively accurate for their price. In fact, more than once I have suggested threading one and fitting it to a bolt action... But, with all firearms in general, there are often similar problems with leade vs. twist. Sometimes they can be solved with a little creative thinking, sometimes not. I would try progressively heavier bullets that can be seated to longer OAL's and see if you can find a workable combination. If not, you might consider a .22-250 barrel (maybe with a slower twist, if they make them). At worst, you'd still have a great 100yd barrel, much more accurate than most new bolt actions. (Sad, but true.)

REAL long range rifles/barrels are much rarer than the big makers would have you believe. When I luck onto one, I don't sell it, but I don't find them often. I have just one now, out of more than twenty rifles in my safes. I am no longer a working gunsmith, but even when I was, I didn't come upon them too often. If you are patient, though, sooner or later you will find the right one.

I don't know if they are doing it yet, but Ultra Accurate Custom Barrels htttp://www.ottllc.com was talking about possibly offering barrels for H&R frames. They specialize in Contender and Encore barrels, but if you were going to spend that much for a barrel, you'd probably want a T/C frame with the adjustable trigger, etc. I would, anyway.

One other option you may not have considered is cast boolits. They are not launched at the velocities of jacketed ones, but they can be every bit as accurate, even at long ranges. You can order a good selection of different ones from Bullshop - the link is on the Cast Boolits forum. They can advise you as to powders and loads, too, though you can also find them on the CB site and from the GunLoads Home Page.

[Tony Gable]

Hi Versifier,

This is Tony again. I'm the one with the HandiRifle freebore issue. I loaded a box of 50gr Nosler Ballistic Tips yesterday. Used 25.5 g of Benchmark and a BR4 primer. Went out squirrel poppin' today clos to town. Took the .223 and my Marlin 781. I got four with the Marlin. Due to the angle of the shot I would have been shooting right back into town so I had to let some go. I got line up on one squirrel at 173 yards. One shot,one kill. The .223 is finally coming together. Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks for all of the advise.

Tony

GUN CONTROLL IS BEING ABLE TO HIT YOU TARGET!!!

[versifier]

Excellent news. Like kids, some rifles and pistols are picky eaters. I have more than one that prefer certain bullets and throw others of the same weight all over the paper. But, if I hadn't been patient with them, like their previous owners I would never have known what they could do. An extreme example is I have a friend that tried over thirty different bullets in an -06 he picked up for cheap because it patterned like a shotgun. (It could not pass the 100yd pieplate test with any factory loads, even rested.) He was just about ready to give up and rebarrel it when I let him look through my bullet stash and he spotted two he hadn't tried, and one of them was it. It was, interestingly, a round nose, plain base, 180gr soft point, not a choice you'd make if looking for an accurate long distance bullet, but it will stay around 3" @ 200yds. It is not fun to shoot a lot of, but dead deer don't complain too much about it. I keep them to load for moose, as the 150's I use for deer don't inspire much confidence when you have to stop half a ton, but there's usually a layer of dust on the box as my hunting buddies and I haven't won the moose lottery in quite a while.

[Tony Gable]

Versifier'

Hey, this is Tony again. Took the Handi Rifle out again this weekend to the same area as before. Took 2 squirrels and a couple of marmits ( rockchucks) as I call them at 150plus yards. The Handi in .223 really likes this round. 50g Ballistis tip ahead of 25.5 g of Benchmark. If the crosshairs is on the target it's over with. I tried getting a chuck at 200 yards holding dead on but this seems to be just beyond the POI for this round. Unfortunately I didn't get a second shot to hold about 2 inches high. 175 yards is about max for now holding dead on.

Here in northwestern Nevada it is all dersert and a lot of long range shooting oportunities. You can literally see for dozens of miles. 175 yards on a ground squirrel is a pretty darn good shot. Smaller than an average 12 oz. beer bottle.
I'm just happier than hell with the .223 Handi.

I have a .243 barrel for it.(Exact same set up right down to the scope.) Scopes are 5x15 Bushnells Target scopes. If I get an antelope tag this year I'm going to take the .243. Not a heck of a lot of water where I put in for so they won't be hard to locate. I came across a nice shooter this weekend about 150 yards out standing broadside. Would have been an easy shot, but no tag and out of season. What a pretty sight.

I'll keep you posted on the tag and hunting situation.

Tony