45-70 plinking load

[Longwood]

Do you have a plinking load you like for your 45-70?

[Daveb]

Just saw your question Longwood! Not sure what kind of 45-70 you shoot. I don't shoot an over abundance of loads in my Marlin XLR but enjoy knocking over silhouettes every month which is a 40 round match. I tried using IMR-4198 and 3031 as well as some of the other higher velocity loads before I found Trail Boss powder. Its a little more expensive per volume and comes with 9 ounces in a 1 lb sized container. Its very light weight and looks like smashed doughnuts. I talked to the manufacturer about starting loads before I found published data. His advice was to take the intended cartridge, measure the depth of it from the base up to the base of the intended bullet. Mark the case on the outside with magic marker. Then pour in enough Trail Boss powder to fill it up to the mark, then pour out that charge on your scales to weigh it. That grain weight is your correct approximate charge. Its not a good idea to compress the powder at all. I found that 17.5 grains of Trail Boss, a standard rifle primer and a 310 grain cast bullet at 1330 fps muzzle velocity was a pleasant load to shoot. Loading data for a 300 grain bullet suggests 16.0 grains so you might start from there. If you need a little more firepower you might look at AAC-5744 data. Hope this gives you a starting point.

[Longwood]

Thank for that info Dave. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I am new on these sites and have a hard time finding where I have been.
I bought a Cimmaron Arms 1885 Highwall in 45-70 last week and will be picking it up on the 15th. It has a 30 inch heavy barrel and weighs nearly ten lbs so it is going to be pretty nice to shoot.
I could not find any 3031 which is what I see a lot of people recommend but I have about 8 other powders including trailboss and H322. Seems most of the powders people recommend for the round are ejther REALLY popular here or nobody uses it, not sure but prolly the latter. I have seen a few places where people use 2400 which is one of the slower pistol powders but that is rare here also. I have about 4 pounds of 110 and 4227 that I burn in .357 and 44 mag but know it is not recommended that light loads be used in big cases. I read today where some members mentioned using zink, lead, rolled up paper and even possibly a 223 case to help fill a large case so smaller powder charges can be safely used. I discovered that a 44 case will slip very snugly inside of the 45-70 after machining off the rim then cutting a slight angle about 9/16 inch up the case and rounding the corners of the base a little. I then drilled out the primer pocket to the primer OD (could be quite a bit smaller probably) then trimmed off about a 10th of an inch of the case mouth so a 405 gr paper patched or cast bullet will seat deep enough.
I weighed a case full (to bullet seating depth) of Trailboss and 322 and weighed them then slid in the filler sleeve and weighed a similar charge and found the sleeve will take up around 4 to 5 grains of Trailboss and even more with some powders. I am retired and usually bored so the time involved in making someting like that is just another reason to play with my lathe so it is no biggie.
I will know by next Wednesdy if I even need to bother or not. 8-D

[Longwood]

First off, I don't recommend anybody try this nonsence.

I finally got a chance to shoot my new toy with several different bullet choices and loads and also tried some light loads with the modified cases.
For the light test loads in the modified cases, I loaded up some with 10 gr of Trailboss and a 5/16" poly foam plug under a 305 gr paper patched and a cast 405 gr PB bullet. Very pleasant to shoot but the PP slug was leaving the patch in the case mouth some of the time so the accuracy suffered greatly. I think I need to champher the rifling a bunch.
Funny thing, I found a piece of the poly-foam caulk saver (filler rod) in a five gal bucket of sand I shot some rounds into so I could recover them. Seems they hung onto the bullet for 50 yards then passed through a layer of plastic along with the bullet.
I also tried some with H110 (cause I have several pounds of it) in the smaller capacity cases but I filled them pretty full and it let me know when it lit off. I think I may be on to something though.
The gun weighs 9.7 lbs and does not kick all that hard with any of the loads I tried but I want someting for the smaller people to shoot also.
BTW,,
I thouroughly examined every one of the modified cases immediatly after firing, and saw absolutely no over pressure signs. Plus I put a oiece of tape over the breach vent to see if I was getting any gas blow back because of the thicker sidewalls of the brass and all is well.

[badbobgerman]

i use the wc860 cheap surplus powder for a plinking load from a half full case to a full case i isnt very fast "50 caliber slow powder " so i use it with heavy bullets for a slow load i have compressed loaded 500 gr bullets and isnt too hot so experiment with it , cheaper than trail boss , little dirty with light bullets though probably unburned powder , see how it works for you ...if you dont like it it works in 223 308 and 30-06 for a good performance load

[Longwood]

I have never seen it for sale. Where do you buy yours?

[versifier]

WC860 does OK with cast rifle plinking loads, but is totally unsuitable for .223 (if the bullet doesn't stick in the barrel, it will be doing .22lr velocities or less) or any larger medium capacity case with jacketed bullets. I use a lot of it for cast loads in .30, 8mm, and .35cals, but it is really dirty, and not all of it burns, so there are often unburned grains left in the barrel, more with smaller cases and shorter barrels. My K31 absolutely loves the stuff for target loads, and my .308 does OK, but other rifles can hate it. Shot my best ever cast group with it in the K31 (.75" @100yds 5shots), and the very next day shot my worst ever with a 7x57 Mauser (38" @50yds 5shots). Obviously YMMV. I always keep some on hand. No possible way to go overpressure with it in any medium capacity case, in fact, I develop loads with it by first filling the case to the base of the bullet and then dropping the charge by a grain at a time until the groups tighten up. It's for targets only, though, as you will never get the velocity up to practical hunting levels using it.
You can get some at either of these sites:
http://www.iidbs.com/hitech.zkb
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

[Longwood]

WC860 does OK with cast rifle plinking loads, but is totally unsuitable for .223 (if the bullet doesn't stick in the barrel, it will be doing .22lr velocities or less) or any larger medium capacity case with jacketed bullets. I use a lot of it for cast loads in .30, 8mm, and .35cals, but it is really dirty, and not all of it burns, so there are often unburned grains left in the barrel, more with smaller cases and shorter barrels. My K31 absolutely loves the stuff for target loads, and my .308 does OK, but other rifles can hate it. Shot my best ever cast group with it in the K31 (.75" @100yds 5shots), and the very next day shot my worst ever with a 7x57 Mauser (38" @50yds 5shots). Obviously YMMV. I always keep some on hand. No possible way to go overpressure with it in any medium capacity case, in fact, I develop loads with it by first filling the case to the base of the bullet and then dropping the charge by a grain at a time until the groups tighten up. It's for targets only, though, as you will never get the velocity up to practical hunting levels using it.
You can get some at either of these sites:
http://www.iidbs.com/hitech.zkb
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

Thanks for the info and links.
I just ordered 8 lbs and 5000 primers.
This thing is going to be cheaper than I first thought to play with.

[Longwood]

First off, I don't recommend anybody try this nonsence.

I finally got a chance to shoot my new toy with several different bullet choices and loads and also tried some light loads with the modified cases.
For the light test loads in the modified cases, I loaded up some with 10 gr of Trailboss and a 5/16" poly foam plug under a 305 gr paper patched and a cast 405 gr PB bullet. Very pleasant to shoot but the PP slug was leaving the patch in the case mouth some of the time so the accuracy suffered greatly. I think I need to champher the rifling a bunch.
Funny thing, I found a piece of the poly-foam caulk saver (filler rod) in a five gal bucket of sand I shot some rounds into so I could recover them. Seems they hung onto the bullet for 50 yards then passed through a layer of plastic along with the bullet.
I also tried some with H110 (cause I have several pounds of it) in the smaller capacity cases but I filled them pretty full and it let me know when it lit off. I think I may be on to something though.
The gun weighs 9.7 lbs and does not kick all that hard with any of the loads I tried but I want someting for the smaller people to shoot also.
BTW,,
I thouroughly examined every one of the modified cases immediatly after firing, and saw absolutely no over pressure signs. Plus I put a oiece of tape over the breach vent to see if I was getting any gas blow back because of the thicker sidewalls of the brass and all is well.

I doubt I will ever find an easier cartridge to reload.
I simply de-prime and barely flare the mouth a little then after cleaning, fill with 12 gr of TB, shake the powder out to the top of the, now soldered in, 44 case mouth and that leaves 10 grs, then with my thumb, push a 405 gr bullet down till it hits the 44 case, run it into my my FL die set very high and with the de-prime pin removed, til it barely mikes where it should then shoot it.
I'll have to compare it accuracy and cost per round wise to the surplus powder without the special cases.