.38 Wadcutter Loads

[udaman1]

I made up and shot a bunch of .38 specials, 125 grain round nose cast bullets using 4.0 grains of Win 231 and was pretty satisfied with the performance.

Then I got around to trying some .38 wadcutter loads. I still have some primers, no thanks to the Obama feeding frenzy.

Using 148 grain double ended wadcutters from Suter's Choice, CCI small pistol primers and 2.9 grains of Win 231. I made up ten and took them to the local outdoor range on the Winchester-Olin property.

They shoot OK but instead of punching perfect .38 caliber holes in the paper like I was expecting they ripped a "tail" on every hole. For the record I was shooting them in my Smith Model 10 with 4" barrel.

The holes made me think the bullets were tumbling at the target. I would appreciate any comments anyone has on their experience with similar loads and performance, especially the ripped hole effect.

Thanks,

Pat in Alton...udaman

[Baldy]

You need more powder. I have used a lot of 231. I would load some at 3.5grs and go up from there. Just guessing but I think you will stop around 4.2grs. Good luck.

[versifier]

Yes, they were tumbling. It's called "keyholing". When it happens with a longer rifle bullet that's exactly what the holes look like. Baldy is more familiar with the powder than I am, but his advice is sound. Lyman lists 231 with a similar bullet from 3.7-4.2MAX. I was taught long ago to be very careful not to used reduced loads with spherical powders, admittedly a much more serious issue with rifle loads, but still good to keep in mind with handguns, too.

Sometimes keyholing happens within the normal burning range because the bullet just doesn't like the powder for what is often an unknown reason. I doubt that is the case here from your description, but if the results don't improve when you up the charge to the accepted working range, try a different powder. I like to shoot .38wc's as slow as possible out of my S&W pre-m36. With Bullseye I can do that easily and accurately, and I have also had good results with Unique, though my revolver likes Unq loads up in the +P levels and they're no fun to shoot out of the little snubby. FWIW, wc bullets perform very well on small game if you get a load you're happy with.

[udaman1]

Thanks for the replies gents,

When I started out to load the 148 Gr wadcutters I consulted three sources: My copy of Lee Modern Reloading, 2nd Edition page 565 shows a starting load of Win 231 to be 2.9 grains, Max 3.3 grains. This is where I started.

The other two sources were my Lyman 49th Edition which only shows a 150 grain WC with Win 231 starting at 3.7, max 4.2 and the Hodgdon web site (hodgdon.com) which shows a 148 LHBWC with Win 231 starting at 3.5, max4.0.

So it seems I was on the very low end of the various source's "acceptable range". As I described, the results with the Lee starting load were poor with a tumbling bullet apparent.

For my next attempt with the same 148 grain double ended Suter's Choice wadcutters I bumped to 3.3 grains of Win231. Again, I was shooting a fixed sights Smith Model 10 with 4" barrel. The results were markedly improved with no evidence of tumbling. Perfect .38 dots. My best group, shooting with hands supported, was in the 4" range, near as I could estimate. I also shot a half box off hand and was shooting a group I could cover with my hand. (OK, I have pretty good sized mitts). This at our indoor range at 50 ft. I still think the Winchester 231 shoots very dirty but as a newbie I have little to compare it too yet.

I do appreciate the information exchanged here. I know the reloading industry is at a temporary standstill but still...keep the faith.

Pat in Alton

[versifier]

A lot of people complain about "dirty powders", and some in truth are dirtier than others. I shoot what my guns like best and figure I have to clean them anyway. After so many years of black powder and Pyrodex, nothing smokeless seems very dirty to me. I do have to say that some of the new Winclean ammo I get as range brass looks like it's never been loaded, except for the dented primers. I wonder sometimes what they use in it. Mostly I shoot good old fashioned Unique, Bullseye, and 2400, but like I said, I have to clean them anyway. As long as I'm happy with the groups, I can deal with it. I have heard a lot of positive comments about how clean Clays is, but not many tout its accuracy, so I guess I'll stick to what I know.