Concealed Carry on Campuses

[Kelly J]

I don't know how you will view this posting, but I offer it, as information, if you don't think it fitting, let me know after you remove it. cobra44@sbcglobal.net.




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The Arkansas
TRAVELER
http://media.www.thetraveleronline.c...s-3318036.shtm
Universities consider concealed-carry laws
Pamela Acosta
4/11/08
After the North Illinois University and Virginia Tech shootings, college students must not only worry about the rising cost of tuition or whether they failed their math tests, but also whether their campuses are safe.

This need for safety has some people advocating permission to carry concealed weapons on campus, which is not permitted at the UA.

Supporters argue that "carrying" could help stop shootings on campus before they escalate.

If something were to happen and a person with a weapon was there, the aggravator could be stopped before he managed to do more harm, said Travis Robinson, member of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, a nationwide organization advocating guns on campus.

"VT had great police enforcement and the UA does too, but they're going to respond in two or three minutes, when an armed citizen can respond in two or thee seconds."

Apart from increasing the feeling of safety, allowing people to carry guns on campus acts as deterrence, he said.

"Students should have the right to defend themselves like everybody else," Robinson said.

Utah is the only state that allows concealed weapons in public universities, according to a Feb. 28 CNN.com article. The University of Utah in Salt Lake City prohibited firearms until the ban was struck down by the state Supreme Court in late 2006.

And while school officials fight to reinstate the ban, state legislators are considering a bill that would modify the law and allow people in Utah - including students - to carry loaded weapons openly, according to the article.

At least 13 other states are considering some sort of concealed-carry legislation aimed at college campuses, according to the National Conference on State Legislatures.

Noting the potential accident or misuse of guns, the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement does not endorse concealed carry on campus, according to a March 8 article in The Philadelphia Inquirer. Groups such as SCC argue that college campuses should not be any different than any other place in Arkansas.

"You don't know if the person behind you at the movie theater or the person buying milk in front of you in Wal-Mart is carrying. Campuses are not any different, " Robinson said.

"People who have permits are responsible, mature students, citizens. Do you see a problem carrying in Wal-Mart? There isn't."

In Arkansas, guns also are prohibited in police stations, jails, courthouses, polling places, government buildings, sporting events, bars, schools, airports and churches, according to the state Web site, http://state.ar.us.

But not everybody thinks like Robinson.

"In this issue, there are cons and pros, and I think that there are more cons, " said Lt. Gary Crain, public information officer for the UA Police Department.

Statistics indicate that in Arkansas, there's a small fraction of people who have permission to carry a concealed weapon. The likelihood of one of those people being in the right place at the right time is slim, and allowing guns is just bringing another weapon on campus, Crain said.

This would open the door to people having guns to defend themselves when a theft or a fit of anger occurs.

In 1993, during a student hearing at Weber State University in Ogden, Utah, a student pulled out two loaded pistols and opened fire, injuring three people before a police officer killed him, according to a Jan. 25, 2002, New York Times article.

"Let's say a student goes to see a professor and the student is angry," Crain said. "Is that professor feeling safe? In the resident hall, if you knew someone down the hall had a gun, are you feeling safe if you're having a confrontation with this person?"

In 1991, a man entered Luby's Cafeteria in Texas and began shooting people. A woman there had permission to carry a gun, but she had left it in the car because of laws restricting her. The woman's parents and 21 other people were shot, and the woman said if she had had her gun, the situation could have been contained, according to a Newsweek article. "In that instance, it would've made a difference, but in most instances, it would not," Crain said.

Some people argue the knowledge of guns on campus would deter people from committing such a crime. But "those individuals that would do something like that are already deranged. They wouldn't think like that," Crain said.

A former student at NIU killed six and wounded 15 on Feb. 15, and at Virginia Tech, a gunman killed 33 people in April 2007. A gun-violence crime occurred at the UA when a former student shot Professor John Locke in 2000. All three shooters killed themselves after their crimes.

Although nobody can prepare for the impact of an attack like that, Crain said, UAPD is prepared to respond to such a situation.

Incidents like this have been prevented because people are alert and report situations that seem out of the ordinary, he said.

"Members of the community should not take things for granted [but should] be aware of their surroundings and report things that they see," he said. "A community is safer when everyone participates in the safety of the community."

To get a concealed-carry weapons permit, a person must be 21 years old and complete an application packet for a Concealed Handgun Permit from the state police in Little Rock. The application also can be downloaded online, and the application packet needs to include both a license and fingerprint fee, full set of fingerprints and waiver to allow the police to access medical records. Along with that, the applicant should include a reference letter from a judge, sheriff or attorney stating the person is free from a criminal charge more than 10 years old.

SCC will hold an empty-holster protest to create awareness and answer questions April 21 to 25. "Empty holster" represents how people who have permits feel when they can't bring their guns on campus, Robinson said.

SCC has more than 25,000 members nationwide on more than 500 campuses, according to the organization's Web site.

Robinson joined the group when he turned 21 in September after the VT shooting, he said.

For more information on the subject, visit http://www.concealedcampus.org or http://www.bradycenter.org.

[Specops]

Did you ever notice that most Police groups seem to think they are the only ones that should have guns and they are the only ones that know how to defend you? Seems to me more and more there is something fundamentally wrong with the attitude and thinking in our police agencies. I have a great respect for the police and the job they do but not their espoused political positions. I agree we are raising more kooks in this country than ever but that is more reason for self defense rather than less.

[Kelly J]

The major problem with the Police force, is they are all under the impression that they are the most capable, to protect us in a criminal confrontation, when in fact the only time they can take any legal action, is after the fact, by law they are not allowed to pre-empt in a criminal action.

The best way to describe their involvement, is they are unfortunatlly, akin to a janitor, they clean up the mess, after the spil has taken place.

This does not mean, that I lack respect for the job they do, because I have total respect for them, and the thankless job they do every day of the year.

[versifier]

Welcome Specops.
My response to that attitude in a LEO is the same as to an anti gun politician: What are YOU doing wrong that makes you paranoid about honest people being armed and able to defend themselves and their families? Like in any profession, there are good ones and bad ones, and the worst ones are the most likely to maneuver themselves into positions of power. My nephew is a cop in a good department, but not every town and city is that lucky. Where I live now, the department is rotten and corrupt right up to the police commission and the crack houses operating openly that support them. Needless to say, I won't be here much longer.

Kelly, I think your posting is timely, well thought out, and entirely appropriate. This is a firearms forum, and in addition to guns and loading, there are very real moral and ethical issues surrounding the carrying and use of firearms. For every right there is a corresponding responsibility. An understanding of those issues is part of that responsibility. I think people with valid carry permits should be able to carry EVERYWHERE, including schools, courthouses, airplanes, police stations, any and all government buildings. Driving is a privilege, but licenses are honored in all states. Carrying is a RIGHT, but I cannot carry my handgun in the Peoples Republik of Massachusetts just south of here without spending a year in jail. That is just plain wrong.

[Kelly J]

Thanks, I wasn't sure, even tought it is Gun related, it is also politican in nature.